| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | Are these rates real?! Thread poster: Dimitrije Janic
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jyuan_us 
United States
Local time: 12:08
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
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| Your peer translators based in the USA | Mar 24, 2022 |
Sorana_M. wrote: Dimitrije Janic wrote:
Manual (classic) translation: 0,060 €/word
MT post-editing: 0,040 €/word
Revision: 0,025 €/word
MT light review: 0,025 €/word
Proofreading: 0,010€/word I've NEVER been offered 0.06 €/word for my language combination. Half of that is my reality. For years. I was told it is enough for my country. [Edited at 2022-03-23 18:48 GMT]
Some of the translators in your language pair based in the USA charge about 10 times of your rates. They could even charge that high when translating into their second language.
[Edited at 2022-03-24 03:55 GMT]
| | | | | Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member for the following reason: Post being replied to has been removed. | Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 19:08
Member
English to Turkish
Sorana_M. wrote:
Half of that is my reality. For years. I was told it is enough for my country.
[Edited at 2022-03-23 18:48 GMT]
No offense, but this is one of the stupidest arguments I've heard in a long time. Who says it's 'enough' for your country? Agencies? Your Prime Minister/President? What about your fellow Romanian translators charging 3, 4 times your rate, are they 'told' different? Are they 'violating' the laws? Perhaps they're living in a different country where they are 'allowed' to charge more? But then again they'll be working in your language pair, won't they? Unless you're an English to Dutch or Swedish translator who decides to go and live in the Philippines, Colombia or Turkey, changing your country without changing your language pair (especially when the target language is an exotic one) doesn't help you achieve your desired economic goals.
You've posted topics about low rates before. If you're working for three cents per word, you're definitely doing something wrong. And you're doing no favours to your fellow Romanian translators by revealing the extent of your failures on a public forum.
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 18:08
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Google Translate says | Mar 24, 2022 |
Google Translate says that Jakov Milicevic wrote:
Dear colleagues Lasić,
I see you're making lies about Memsource. As a user for more than 6 years, I have never seen anyone claim this about Memsource. The manner in which your discounts depend on how your agency setting a way of calculation is therefore does not depend on the tool itself, but the settings that apply your agency or client.
Dear Dimitrije colleague,
Prices by which the translators work on Serbian findings are much lower than these suggested by the client. Basically with agencies you will never make a price that you can with a direct client. I speak to you from a personal 15-year experience.
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Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 18:08
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Google Translate says | Mar 24, 2022 |
Google Translate says that Korana Lasić wrote:
Show on a portion of the text where I said it depends only by memsource software?
How isn't you ashamed to say that I lie and then repeat exactly what I said, just in other words? Learn to read with understanding before you ever contact me again!
The fact that the six years of crazy working on Memsource is not for any praise, but first you need to learn to read and only then you can dream about learning about information technologies!
Dimitrije did not ask who pays more, direct clients or agencies, but are those and those installments acceptable from the agency! So, no way you and reading with understanding to make up !!
ŢE-KEIC NEWS ON THE SITE because this forum for a professional free translator has turned into a parade of mentally unstable barking nonsense!
"Your" (in a given context) is written in capital letters, but who does not know how to read it does not even know that it says, so relaxed! Treasure to your customers are just happy! * FACEPALM *
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 18:08
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Baran Keki wrote:
If you're working for three cents per word, you're definitely doing something wrong. And you're doing no favours to your fellow Romanian translators by revealing the extent of your failures on a public forum.
Why must you be so aggressive? Sorana was simply trying to respond to the original question about whether those rates are commonly offered or considered fair by some. She says that in her experience, they are. She's not boasting about it. She's just stating the reality of her own situation, which is useful information for the original poster to know.
In my country of origin (South Africa), €0.06 per word would be considered a reasonably high rate. €0.04 is the average rate charged by South African translators in the most prolific language combination. At 2000 words per day, that's enough to sustain a family of 4, even if you're the only breadwinner. Romanian cost of living is even lower than that of South Africa.
Of course, you're welcome to price yourself out of the market on principle. If you double your rate, you're not going to get half as many jobs (you're going to get maybe 5-10% as many jobs), and you would need to get at least half as many jobs to survive if you choose the strategy of doubling your rate.
[Edited at 2022-03-24 09:37 GMT]
| | | | Sadek_A
Local time: 20:08
English to Arabic
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Samuel Murray wrote:
price yourself out of the market
You're implicitly (borderline explicitly, honestly) saying that "the market" is necessarily low paying, which is a very detrimental statement to the rest of us all.
Working with low rates is one thing, but openly supporting them is why we are experiencing the very bad status quo.
Currently getting low rates doesn't mean you mustn't long for and work towards higher ones.
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 18:08
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Sadek_A wrote: Samuel Murray wrote:
Of course, you're welcome to price yourself out of the market on principle. You're implicitly (borderline explicitly, honestly) saying that "the market" is necessarily low paying...
I don't see how my statement could be interpreted to mean that. No matter how low or high paying the market is, you can always price yourself out of it. (-:
Working with low rates is one thing, but openly supporting them is why we are experiencing the very bad status quo.
No-one here is supporting low rates. Should we be dishonest, keep quiet about non-high rates when fellow-translators ask us about such rates, and create the impression that such rates don't exist?
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Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 19:08
Member
English to Turkish
| A dangerous discussion | Mar 24, 2022 |
Samuel Murray wrote:
In my country of origin (South Africa), €0.06 per word would be considered a reasonably high rate. €0.04 is the average rate charged by South African translators in the most prolific language combination. At 2000 words per day, that's enough to sustain a family of 4, even if you're the only breadwinner. Romanian cost of living is even lower than that of South Africa.
Of course, you're welcome to price yourself out of the market on principle. If you double your rate, you're not going to get half as many jobs (you're going to get maybe 5-10% as many jobs), and you would need to get at least half as many jobs to survive if you choose the strategy of doubling your rate.
[Edited at 2022-03-24 09:37 GMT]
As one forum poster from your adopted country said it's not very wise to discuss rates on a public forum like this one, but I've gotta ask, seeing as you live in the Netherlands and are obviously supporting a family there: do you charge the same rates as your native South Africans do or do you 'price yourself out of the market', as you put it? I know that even 0.08 EUR per word is considered a low rate in a country like the Netherlands. Do the clients conduct a market research in every country before agreeing to a translator's rate? Why should those living in low cost countries dictate the rates for their language pairs when there should be more or less universally accepted rates for those languages? I know that you're merely stating the facts, as you always seem to do, but do you actually approve of the rates demanded by your countrymen just because they're living in a cheap (in terms of living standards) country? Doesn't that cramp your style in any way in the Netherlands?
As for Sorana, it occurred to me that she might be exclusively working with Romanian agencies. That could explain her issues with low rates.
| | | | Sadek_A
Local time: 20:08
English to Arabic
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Samuel Murray wrote:
I don't see how my statement could be interpreted to mean that. No matter how low or high paying the market is, you can always price yourself out of it. (-:
It could, and it did, in every way. But, won't argue with you over it for long.
No-one here is supporting low rates. Should we be dishonest, keep quiet about non-high rates when fellow-translators ask us about such rates, and create the impression that such rates don't exist?
You are actually proving my point. How could they ever exist when members from our profession keep saying they don't?
Think of it as a "passive aggressive" pressure you're thusly putting on rates.
If you double your rate, you're not going to get half as many jobs (you're going to get maybe 5-10% as many jobs), and you would need to get at least half as many jobs to survive if you choose the strategy of doubling your rate.
What you're saying could've proved reasonable in an earlier age when we didn't know better (an age when Machine Translation was not yet conceived, or at best not yet brought to our attention), let alone bearing the booming inflation in mind. But, that's not the case today.
Now, we know there are people out there working on replacing us, by virtue of our own work nonetheless. Hence, telling people that they should keep charging $0.08 or even $0.06 to get enough jobs and remain in the market, is simply a trick. Because, what market? Can you guarantee each and every one of them a still-existing market in the next...not 50, not even 20...just the next 10 years? No? Then, you're, intentionally or unintentionally, misleading them!
I usually work on projects many others refuse to take. Why do they refuse? Because, translation is not just the ability to understand and write in a certain pair, it's also inherent talent, patience, persistence, dedication, etc.
What good would $0.06/(s/t)w on template-based certificates be for the translator, when once that translation is successfully delivered to the company the translator can kiss any income from the same certificate goodbye forever and ever after? Not to mention that the same company will be milking that very same translation for years and years to come every time they receive the same certificate (just a matter of changing few names every now and then, really). And, the same goes for a whole lot of content that follows the template pattern.
| | | | Gerard de Noord
France
Local time: 18:08
Member (2003)
English to Dutch
+ ...
Robert Forstag wrote: Gerard de Noord wrote:
When the internet started to gain momentum.... Not really sure of the point of this post. The "going rate" for this or that language combination paid by agencies quickly gets around. In the end, agencies do propose concrete rates to translators. And then people share information. Secrets are not kept.
I've never believed in going rates. Good translators should charge more than bad translators, niche translators can't be compared with general translators. Not all agencies are alike. Some big ones have 23-year-old PMs negotiate with me. I'm 61 and refuse to negotiate based on the going rates those poor creatures are obliged to offer people like me after their TikTok trainings. Some big and several small agencies are willing to pay a bit extra to translators they can rely on. But of course, I'll keep their names a secret.
[Edited at 2022-03-24 16:01 GMT]
| | | | | Just to put the rates argument to bed, once and for all :-) | Mar 24, 2022 |
The market does not dictate your rates.
The price you command depends on the value you add.
In the old days, at the lowest level, it was value over and above the boss’s secretary’s friend’s rusty school-level French or whatever.
Now it is value over and above MT.
Above that level, it is value over and above other translators.
Where you end up on this pyramid depends on a combination of skill, luck and graft.
So ... See more The market does not dictate your rates.
The price you command depends on the value you add.
In the old days, at the lowest level, it was value over and above the boss’s secretary’s friend’s rusty school-level French or whatever.
Now it is value over and above MT.
Above that level, it is value over and above other translators.
Where you end up on this pyramid depends on a combination of skill, luck and graft.
So your rates are dictated by you, not the market. ▲ Collapse
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Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 18:08
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| @Baran, since you ask | Mar 24, 2022 |
Baran Keki wrote:
I've gotta ask, seeing as you live in the Netherlands and are obviously supporting a family there: do you charge the same rates as your native South Africans do...?
Nope.
...or do you 'price yourself out of the market', as you put it?
If I were to double my rates, I would certainly be "pricing myself out of the market". Unless I can find another market, but finding a new market takes time and it's risky (what if the market you're trying to find is a figment).
Do the clients conduct a market research in every country before agreeing to a translator's rate?
Most of [my] clients base their rate not on the country that the translator is in but on either the country that the agency is in or the country that the end-client or end-user is in, whichever is lower. Does this surprise you?
Why should those living in low cost countries dictate the rates for their language pairs when there should be more or less universally accepted rates for those languages?
Why should the rates charged by expats be considered the "universally accepted rate"?
Do you actually approve of the rates demanded by your countrymen just because they're living in a cheap (in terms of living standards) country?
Yes, because that rate is a fair rate where they are. It's fair to translators and its fair to clients.
If all those translators were to double their rates, then (a) many translators won't be able to find enough clients to support their lifestyles unless they find new markets and (b) many would-be clients would not be able to hire translators, which means that they will eventually learn to get by without translators.
Look, I fully agree with the principle that translators should not undercut each other by charging excessively low rates, but what is a low rate is not universally agreed, and even if it was, it certainly should not be dictated by translators who choose to live more expensive lives.
Ice Scream wrote:
The market does not dictate your rates.
Of course translators can dictate their rates, but one has to decide whether you want to be a translator who dictates rates or a translator who translates and gets paid for it. (-:
| | | | Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 19:08
Member
English to Turkish
| Samuel Murray | Mar 24, 2022 |
I disagree with every point you make. Since there is no 'disagree' button (as one colleague just recently proposed) I thought I'd just let you know personally. It's kind of pointless, and potentially dangerous, to continue this discussion.
| | | | Gerard de Noord
France
Local time: 18:08
Member (2003)
English to Dutch
+ ...
| Post removed | Mar 24, 2022 |
I violated my own rules.
Gerard
[Edited at 2022-03-25 06:22 GMT]
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