| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Non-native speakers reviewing your edits Thread poster: Elizabeth Morris
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Adieu 
Ukrainian to English
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Elizabeth Morris wrote:
I found out what happened here. The client told me that they actually, intentionally returned to me a second, different translation of the same text that was done by "a native speaker of English" at a Russian agency (definitely not a real native speaker!). The client didn't seem to even realize how inappropriate it is to send one translation, get it reviewed, then send someone else's translation of the same text to be reviewed again on the same order.
It is 100% appropriate. It's a grading job.
They just forgot to explain that to you.
| | | | Adieu
Ukrainian to English
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I'm just familiar with the odd interactions you sometimes get with a small Russia-based client who feels they "splurged" on a US-based translator... and then starts coming at you with very strange asks.
I've had people seriously expecting me to chat with them for an hour+ discussing the AESTHETIC merits of word choices in a completed $30 job. Or a guy who thought a $100 down payment for translations not yet sent was a solid reason for many (!) hours of free business consultations on... See more I'm just familiar with the odd interactions you sometimes get with a small Russia-based client who feels they "splurged" on a US-based translator... and then starts coming at you with very strange asks.
I've had people seriously expecting me to chat with them for an hour+ discussing the AESTHETIC merits of word choices in a completed $30 job. Or a guy who thought a $100 down payment for translations not yet sent was a solid reason for many (!) hours of free business consultations on semi-unrelated topics.
With hourly pay what it is in their regional capital, that might well make sense... but by American standards, that's just madness.
Btw, the not-separately-negotiated attempt to get Elizabeth to help them recruit the cheaper people they want to get to replace her is a prime example of such an odd ask.
Stepan Konev wrote:
@Adieu, why do you lean on the topic starter to know her rate and discounts? Who are you to feel like you have the right to demand this information? Are you an investigator? You develop so many unfounded suspicions even though you have no idea of the situation.
@Elizabeth Morris
I don't know why did they do that either. I don't see how could they benefit from this behavior... Maybe they are trying to modify your translation as a part of their rewriting work (SEO/SMM or what they call it). But no matter what their purpose is, they behave in an unprofessional manner. I go with Anton Konashenok in this regard. Actually, I don't accept any work that involves the MS Word Track Changes feature. As far as I understand, these are two diefferent problems: editing a text translated by a non-native translator, and struggling with idiots. If I were you, I would make a mandatory condition: either you review a job once or you don't review it at all. Period.
[Edited at 2021-08-08 00:59 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 14:09
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
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| It should be considered as a rare case | Aug 8, 2021 |
Elizabeth Morris wrote: Stepan Konev wrote:
As far as I understand, these are two diefferent problems: editing a text translated by a non-native translator, and struggling with idiots. If I were you, I would make a mandatory condition: either you review a job once or you don't review it at all. Period. I'm going to start being very clear about this with new clients from the beginning. I always like to give a sense of reasonable flexibility about revisions--like if I actually made a mistake, I would want the client to be comfortable with asking me to fix it--but I think I'm giving the impression that I'm a little too flexible...I also think I somehow keep getting private clients who have never hired an editor or translator before, so they don't have a sense of where the boundaries are. I'm still getting established as a freelancer, so unfortunately I'll probably be dealing with problem #2 for a while!
I think most clients have common sense and the one in question is an exception. You said "I'm going to start being very clear about this with new clients from the beginning" but doing that could scare away potential clients who would have the right expectations of your revision work.
| | | | Adieu
Ukrainian to English
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| I think I know what causes OP's difficulties | Aug 8, 2021 |
She seems to have strong academic qualifications and very good self-promotion skills... which, alas, tend to impress industry newcomers most of all.
That's how she gets clients who don't quite understand what revision is (or are unable to communicate what they actually wanted instead) and people who want to pay her USD in America but don't know how (her other topic).
These people also often don't have realistic expectations of how the industry works, so they get the imp... See more She seems to have strong academic qualifications and very good self-promotion skills... which, alas, tend to impress industry newcomers most of all.
That's how she gets clients who don't quite understand what revision is (or are unable to communicate what they actually wanted instead) and people who want to pay her USD in America but don't know how (her other topic).
These people also often don't have realistic expectations of how the industry works, so they get the impression that they paid top dollar for some kind of elite valet for your whims service
...meanwhile, she's just trying to get regular normal work. Unfortunately, the normal work from clients in the know instead tends to go to old reliable workhorse translators. It's a whole other challenge to get stable, reliable clients with realistic expectations and solid meaty jobs.
jyuan_us wrote: Elizabeth Morris wrote: Stepan Konev wrote:
As far as I understand, these are two diefferent problems: editing a text translated by a non-native translator, and struggling with idiots. If I were you, I would make a mandatory condition: either you review a job once or you don't review it at all. Period. I'm going to start being very clear about this with new clients from the beginning. I always like to give a sense of reasonable flexibility about revisions--like if I actually made a mistake, I would want the client to be comfortable with asking me to fix it--but I think I'm giving the impression that I'm a little too flexible...I also think I somehow keep getting private clients who have never hired an editor or translator before, so they don't have a sense of where the boundaries are. I'm still getting established as a freelancer, so unfortunately I'll probably be dealing with problem #2 for a while! I think most clients have common sense and the one in question is an exception. You said "I'm going to start being very clear about this with new clients from the beginning" but doing that could scare away potential clients who would have the right expectations of your revision work.
[Edited at 2021-08-08 04:46 GMT]
[Edited at 2021-08-08 04:49 GMT]
[Edited at 2021-08-08 04:53 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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eowa
Uganda
Local time: 21:09
English to Luganda
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| Stick to your standards | Aug 8, 2021 |
Hello Elizabeth,
Let me begin by thanking you for all your efforts to make your clients happy. According to your explanation in the first post, it seems to me that the people you're dealing with have no idea what translation means. Perhaps to them, translation means simply changing words from one language to another, whereas for you you're striving to deliver a meaning-based and natural translation. The person being a non-native speaker in itself could not be a problem, but it seems that ... See more Hello Elizabeth,
Let me begin by thanking you for all your efforts to make your clients happy. According to your explanation in the first post, it seems to me that the people you're dealing with have no idea what translation means. Perhaps to them, translation means simply changing words from one language to another, whereas for you you're striving to deliver a meaning-based and natural translation. The person being a non-native speaker in itself could not be a problem, but it seems that he doesn't even know basic translation principles.
I work as a translator, translating from English to Luganda (Ganda) spoken in Uganda, Africa. The organization I have worked with for 11 years now had a similar policy back in the days. A translator would translate, send the work to the proofreader who would make many changes (including unnecessary ones) according to his/her preferences, and then the proofreader would send the same work to the checker, and then back to the first translator, and so on. This could not only create a lot of tension among the translators but could also unnecessarily delay project completion until the organization changed that method.
You seem to me that you're a professional translator and you know what translation means. I would suggest that you don't lower your standards just to please one client. Kindly explain to him your standards and why you can't lower them. If he appreciates professionalism he will appreciate your work and perhaps use you another time. ▲ Collapse
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Elizabeth Morris wrote:
I am wondering if I should just stop accepting jobs to review translations that were done by non-native speakers.
Do this. It's not worth it.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:09
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| Even better... | Aug 8, 2021 |
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote: Elizabeth Morris wrote:
I am wondering if I should just stop accepting jobs to review translations that were done by non-native speakers.
Do this. It's not worth it.
Even better: stop accepting jobs to review translations (no matter who did them).
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 20:09
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
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I have found most proofreading jobs to be scammy, one way or the other. I don’t do them. Examples are endless, let’s list just some:
- advertised as proofreading job, turns out it’s a machine translation/MTPE job
- fishing for experienced, expensive translators to clean and improve translations done by cheap, inexperienced people (probably the most common one)
- translators who pretend they proofread something, while they didn’t or proofread it partially and char... See more I have found most proofreading jobs to be scammy, one way or the other. I don’t do them. Examples are endless, let’s list just some:
- advertised as proofreading job, turns out it’s a machine translation/MTPE job
- fishing for experienced, expensive translators to clean and improve translations done by cheap, inexperienced people (probably the most common one)
- translators who pretend they proofread something, while they didn’t or proofread it partially and charge for it (yes, translators can be scammers too, unbelievable)
- asking for endless revisions for the price of one proofreading job
- asking for educational/course material thoroughly explaining all the edits, choices and wording for the price of one proofreading job
- asking to categorize all the edits and errors into columns to support their statistical efforts (data entry job style) for the price of one proofreading job
- finding “proofreaders” from questionable sources, with no credentials or solid experience, to be the authority for the document integrity and quality, just because they proofread for $0.01 per word. That price alone makes them authoritative. ▲ Collapse
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This happened to me on a smallish job of a couple of thousand words, via an agency, my client. I submitted the translation (French into English, my native tongue), which was proofread internally by a native speaker of English. The end client, a high-ranking civil servant whose native tongue is French, returned the work having spent hours carefully "correcting" it. She had in fact added all the standard false friends, completely messed up the choice of tense and, sneakily, even added a few new se... See more This happened to me on a smallish job of a couple of thousand words, via an agency, my client. I submitted the translation (French into English, my native tongue), which was proofread internally by a native speaker of English. The end client, a high-ranking civil servant whose native tongue is French, returned the work having spent hours carefully "correcting" it. She had in fact added all the standard false friends, completely messed up the choice of tense and, sneakily, even added a few new sentences and rephrased others to mean something quite different. The work had basically been altered and read like a non-native text.
The agency sent me the "corrected" text with a copy of the end client's message requesting that the translator "correct" the work so that it reads in the same style as she had corrected.
A superficial glance was enough to see the work had been Frenchified. I contacted the agency that said have a go anyway. I spent an hour - wasted an hour - or two trying. It hurt! I finally wrote back to the agency with five examples of erroneous "corrections" with explanations and sources should they wish to cross-check. I also highlighted the additional pieces of text. I simply ended the mail to the agency saying that I would be only too happy to "correct" the text if:
- they would guarantee that my name appear nowhere in connexion with the English version of the text
- that they would pay me my standard hourly rate to do so, estimating the time at least 3 hours
- that they would have the piece proofread internally and seek the opinion of their own native speaker proofreader who would also undertake to stand by the work
They acknowledged receipt of my mail, paid me for the job and I never heard of it again.
They continued to solicit my services for work but I gradually dropped them for a number of reasons but this was the piece that sparked that wish to say bye-bye! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Yaotl Altan
Mexico
Local time: 12:09
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
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Elizabeth Morris wrote:
... Have any of you encountered this kind of situation--a non-native-speaker who makes a bunch of changes to your changes and sends it back to you? I feel that there must be something I can say to every client in the beginning to avoid this kind of situation and set correct expectations, but I'm not sure how to explain the line between appropriate feedback and unreasonable expectations.
I was hired to translate and proofread texts fot the Mexican market. Many of the texts used to have a South American and Spain's styles, so I had to adapt them. The PM wasn't a Mexican citizen and had not a full command of the Mexican slangs. They dared to ask me if I really was a Mexican citizen. "Well, yes, since 1973 I've living in Mexico". Unfortunately, there are many unethical colleagues who decreased quality by applying to other language variants they don't know 100%. Still, they pour tons of blabbery about marketing and language skills. Make my day!
What do you do to avoid these misunderstandings?
Nothing, those clients are free to hire the people they want, but I'm sure they won't deliver the best quality and that will impact negatively in their brands as everyone can see by reading the texts attached to the clothes descriptions. Perhaps, they will call me later to fix their holes, and I'll gladly do it, but with a higher rate. If they don't call me anymore, my life goes on anyway I don't spend my time trying to persuade fanatics either in the translation or the religion field.
| | | | Yaotl Altan
Mexico
Local time: 12:09
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
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| Been there too. | Aug 14, 2021 |
Nikki Scott-Despaigne wrote:
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A superficial glance was enough to see the work had been Frenchified.....
Been there too in those situations. Hey! I liked that verb! "Frenchify"
They continued to solicit my services for work but I gradually dropped them for a number of reasons but this was the piece that sparked that wish to say bye-bye!
Yes, they annoy people with their attitudes. On the other side, there are a lot of potential new clients to work with.
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