| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | Help needed regarding a RUSH large editing project Thread poster: Ninon Dion
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Ninon Dion 
Canada
Local time: 06:19
Member (2013)
English to French
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TOPIC STARTER | How long does that whole process take | Sep 11, 2013 |
Meta Arkadia wrote: NinonD wrote:
...he says he wants to let me know how their agency "work"... That workflow will be: translator[s] - editor - proofreader - DTPer - [compositor] - subeditor - printer You would have been what I call here the "subeditor". Ideally, there are no mistakes in the text at that point anymore. But just to make sure, the subeditor goes through it once more. That's why I mentioned 3,000 words/h for that job, whereas for editing the word-count would on average be 1,000 w/h, and for proofreading 2,000 w/h. Cheers, Hans
I'm curious to know from your expert point of view, how long does that whole process take, starting with the translation delivery until now?
| | | | | Average, like most translators | Sep 11, 2013 |
NinonD wrote:
How can you quote 3000 words/h when you have no clue about the nature of the content?
Because that would be the average for that kind of job. Like 2,500 w/day for translations, 1,000 w/h for editing (the "real" thing), and 2,000 w/h for proofing, 3,000 w/h would be an acceptable initial quote for this kind of job. If I'm right, and this concerns post-DTP editing, the content isn't very important. Neither is the context, nor the terminology. The PDF should already be 100% OK. You'll have to look if there are any mistakes left, if the caption on page 37 is for the table, and not for the diagram on the same page. Things like that.
And of course things can get out of hand. Just like when you quoted 2.5k w/day for a translation when it turned out you can only do 1k. Or the very opposite.
Today, the agency will enlighten you. Please keep us informed.
Cheers,
Hans
| | | | Ninon Dion
Canada
Local time: 06:19
Member (2013)
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Meta Arkadia wrote: NinonD wrote:
How can you quote 3000 words/h when you have no clue about the nature of the content? Because that would be the average for that kind of job.
Again.... I didn't know what "kind of job" it was was when I was asked for a quote. I didn't know about the document being in PDF, nor did I know how the client wanted me to correct his document.
And of course things can get out of hand. Just like when you quoted 2.5k w/day for a translation when it turned out you can only do 1k.
Not sure I get what you are implying here.
| | | | | I'm getting out of here | Sep 12, 2013 |
NinonD wrote:
Again.... I didn't know what "kind of job" it was was when I was asked for a quote.
But, but, in your second post on this forum you said
I have the document
And it's "technical". And what's more
From what I've seen it's pretty well translated
You even knew that the job would have to be done on a PDF, even though they initially sent you an editable format. And all of this doesn't point to post-DTP editing...
Anyway, I've had it. Again. Good luck, all of you. You'll need it.
Cheers,
Hans
[Edited at 2013-09-12 01:01 GMT]
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| Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member for the following reason: Blank post | Ninon Dion
Canada
Local time: 06:19
Member (2013)
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | I have to respond, for ethics sake | Sep 12, 2013 |
Meta Arkadia wrote: NinonD wrote:
Again.... I didn't know what "kind of job" it was was when I was asked for a quote. But, but, in your second post on this forum you said I have the document And it's "technical". And what's more From what I've seen it's pretty well translated You even knew that the job would have to be done on a PDF, even though they initially sent you an editable format. And all of this doesn't point to post-DTP editing... Anyway, I've had it. Again. Good luck, all of you. You'll need it. Cheers, Hans [Edited at 2013-09-12 01:01 GMT]
I received the document as part of the third email sent by the client. Two messages after he asked for a quote. He never mentioned the format prior to that either.
| | | | Ninon Dion
Canada
Local time: 06:19
Member (2013)
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Well, I thought I should give an update on this situation.
The agency didn't contact me the next day, as they said they would.
I did email them back a couple of days later; we explained ourselves and the client said he would be clearer in the future.
The real reason I came back to this thread is to address Hans' (Meta Arkadia) assumptions concerning the nature of the proofreading I was asked to do. He assumed that the translation had been revised and edited by di... See more Well, I thought I should give an update on this situation.
The agency didn't contact me the next day, as they said they would.
I did email them back a couple of days later; we explained ourselves and the client said he would be clearer in the future.
The real reason I came back to this thread is to address Hans' (Meta Arkadia) assumptions concerning the nature of the proofreading I was asked to do. He assumed that the translation had been revised and edited by different people prior to arriving in my hands in PDF format, and that receiving a PDF document meant that the changes that were expected to be made would be minor, as this would have been the last reading before printing.
I was doubting his assumptions because I had no way to be sure that this was the case. Well now I have proof that it wasn't.
I translated a document for this same client over the weekend, and delivered it this morning. He acknowledge my delivery, and told me he would put everything on a PDF for me to "proofread" later today. So what does this say? There is no editing/revision work being made before the clients asks for a PDF "proofreading".
I doubt Hans will read this, but I felt I had to close the circle.
Thanks to anyone who took the time to read! ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Professional help | Oct 1, 2013 |
NinonD wrote:
I doubt Hans will read this
Have no fear, I read it.
If the agency receives your translation, turns it into a PDF file and sends it right back to you for proofing, they should seek professional help.
However, there's hope. For the agency. What I described above, doesn't make sense at all, and it's also highly unusual to have the translator proofread their own translation. They should have done that before sending it to the agency anyway. Twice (or more). No, they had it edited, proofed, and DTP-ed, and then they will send it back to you as a PDF file for "subediting." As I said. Or they are nuts, and should seek...
Cheers,
Hans
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Kay Denney
France
Local time: 12:19
French to English
| Why do you say the agency is nuts? | Oct 1, 2013 |
Did Ninon ever mention the original format? (I just re-read the whole thread and didn't see any mention of it)
The file may have been produced using software she didn't have (like InDesign, it's not a translation tool, but it's very popular for instruction manuals and other technical documents). In that case, how can she possibly work on it unless it's converted to a format she can handle?
I know of more than one agency that works like this. I do the translation in a CA... See more Did Ninon ever mention the original format? (I just re-read the whole thread and didn't see any mention of it)
The file may have been produced using software she didn't have (like InDesign, it's not a translation tool, but it's very popular for instruction manuals and other technical documents). In that case, how can she possibly work on it unless it's converted to a format she can handle?
I know of more than one agency that works like this. I do the translation in a CAT tool then export to PDF because I don't have InDesign. Some changes can't be made in the CAT tool so I put sticky notes on the pdf for the person who then has to convert it to InDesign. It's a bit messy but short of giving me InDesign (and the computer to run it!) we haven't come up with anything better. If you know of anything better I'm all ears! ▲ Collapse
| | | | | I never said the agency is nuts | Oct 1, 2013 |
On the contrary, I think the agency knows what the are doing, and are very nice at that. Just re-read the whole thread.
That said, if Ninon is right, they are nuts. And cruel. And I happen to think Ninon is wrong, very, very wrong. Just re-read the whole thread.
Cheers,
Hans
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Texte Style wrote:
(like InDesign, it's not a translation tool, but it's very popular for instruction manuals and other technical documents)
Thank you for informing me on InDesign. However, I think I mentioned the very malware in this thread on Sep 11:
This explains the PDF format. Unless you prefer to do the final editing in InDesign or other horrors.
I really would appreciate it if you'd read the whole thread.
Cheers,
Hans
| | | | Ninon Dion
Canada
Local time: 06:19
Member (2013)
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Impossible in my world | Oct 1, 2013 |
Meta Arkadia wrote:
On the contrary, I think the agency knows what the are doing, and are very nice at that. Just re-read the whole thread.
That said, if Ninon is right, they are nuts. And cruel. And I happen to think Ninon is wrong, very, very wrong. Just re-read the whole thread.
Cheers,
Hans
Well Hans, I don't know what else I can say to convince you.
Like expected, I received all translated documents (almost 4000 words total, technical content) in PDF formats for me to "proofread" last night. A whole 18 hours after I delivered the translation.
Now if you still think I am wrong, very very wrong, tell me how an agency can have multiple editors, revisers and proofreaders check the material I translated within 18 hours before sending it back to me for a "final" reading. I don't know but that seems kind of impossible in my world. Maybe it's not the case in yours?
[Edited at 2013-10-01 20:21 GMT]
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NinonD wrote:
Now if you still think I am wrong, very very wrong, tell me how an agency can have multiple editors, revisers and proofreaders check the material I translated within 18 hours before sending it back to me for a "final" reading.
That's an easy one. On average:
- Editing 4,000 words @ 1,000 w/h = 4 hours
- Proofing 4,000 words @ 2,000 w/h = 2 hours
- PDF-ing 2 hours
Total 8 hours
If they think their editor is excellent, they may have skipped the proofing part (since you are going to do the subediting anyway) which would reduce the total time to 6 hours, well within the 18 hours you mentioned.
You're only not very, very wrong if the text and the lay-out of the PDF are exactly the same as in the file you handed in as the translation. In that case, the agency is nuts, and you shouldn't have accepted the job because of the crazy and cruel first job offer they made you.
Cheers,
Hans
| | | | Kay Denney
France
Local time: 12:19
French to English
| Assumptions and suppositions | Oct 2, 2013 |
Meta Arkadia wrote: Texte Style wrote:
(like InDesign, it's not a translation tool, but it's very popular for instruction manuals and other technical documents) Thank you for informing me on InDesign. However, I think I mentioned the very malware in this thread on Sep 11: This explains the PDF format. Unless you prefer to do the final editing in InDesign or other horrors. I really would appreciate it if you'd read the whole thread. Cheers, Hans
I'm sorry, I take exception to your thoroughly condescending attitude. Several contributors to this thread have tried to explain that many agencies follow the workflow we have supposed them to follow, but you persist in thinking otherwise. I really fail to understand why you have such a bee in your bonnet.
As to InDesign, well I had read the whole thread, as I indicated, and as you would have known had you read my whole post, however, you appeared to have forgotten that PDFs are sometimes necessary in between 11 Sep and yesterday, which is why I gently brought the topic up again.
When you say "Or they are nuts, and should seek..." you are implying that the agency are nuts if they followed the workflow we have supposed them to follow, aren't you? What part of "they are nuts" do I not understand?
And by the way, if you had heeded your own advice and READ THE WHOLE THREAD, you would have realised that when Ninon mentioned 4,000 words it was a typo (since she has been talking about 40,000 right from the beginning). That's an entirely different kettle of fish to the 4,000 you dispose of in 8 hours.
Transposing your calculations to the correct wordcount, we get 80 hours, divided by the 18-hour time slot Ninon mentioned, that means 5 people working flat out for 18 hrs, or ten working flat out for 9 hrs, or 15 working flat out for 6 hrs: none are ideal situations.
Either the agency is indeed nuts (always possible, I've known plenty), or you are wrong, very, very wrong
| | | | | Two different jobs | Oct 2, 2013 |
Texte Style wrote:
(since she has been talking about 40,000 right from the beginning).
We're talking two (2) jobs. The editing job she refused to do (40k words), and the translation job she did accept (4 k words).
Cheers,
Hans
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