| Mga pahina sa paksa: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8] > | Off topic: Pronunciation that makes you cringe (inwardly) Tagapagpost sa thread: Cilian O'Tuama
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Lingua 5B 
Bosnia at Herzegovina
Local time: 14:52
Kasapi (2009)
Ingles papuntang Croatian
+ ...
Ice Scream wrote:
Fortay might not make sense etymologically but it is how everyone in the UK pronounces it, so doesn't that make it the correct pronunciation? Nobody will understand you if you say fort.
Agree, it's how it's been naturalized in that region and how it only makes sense for that region. Otherwise, each word has an old form/old etymology or source/original word (spelling, pronunciation, etc.). How would it look if we insisted on it for each word?
It's supposed to be forté in French. The é (accent aigu) does not exist in English, so how else to naturalize it for English?
[Edited at 2022-12-20 12:38 GMT]
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 14:52
Kasapi (2020)
French papuntang Olandes
+ ...
Lingua 5B wrote:
It's supposed to be forté in French. The é (accent aigu) does not exist in English, so how else to naturalize it for English?
[Edited at 2022-12-20 12:38 GMT]
'Forté' in French? I've never seen that word before. What is it supposed to mean ?
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnia at Herzegovina
Local time: 14:52
Kasapi (2009)
Ingles papuntang Croatian
+ ...
| I think it's an old word | Dec 20, 2022 |
Lieven Malaise wrote:
Lingua 5B wrote:
It's supposed to be forté in French. The é (accent aigu) does not exist in English, so how else to naturalize it for English?
[Edited at 2022-12-20 12:38 GMT]
'Forté' in French? I've never seen that word before. What is it supposed to mean ?
I think it's outdated. I have never seen it either, I just followed it backwards from "fortay". The references are not consistent, some show it as a command in fencing. Some show middle French.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/forté
But it seems the base is fort, not forté. Anyway, fortay sounded much more with French etymology to me, than Italian. But I have not researched it to confirm so this is just an assumption (no need for grammar police to remind me it all stems from Latin).
I might have used a wrong analogy with how English pronounce cliché.
[Edited at 2022-12-20 13:29 GMT]
| | | | expressisverbis
Portugal
Local time: 13:52
Kasapi (2015)
Ingles papuntang Portuguese
+ ...
Lingua 5B wrote:
But it seems the base is fort, not forté. Anyway, fortay sounded much more with French etymology to me, than Italian. But I have not researched it to confirm so this is just an assumption (no need for grammar police to remind me it all stems from Latin).
I'm not sure if the message above was meant for me. If not, my apologies.
I do not and never have intended to teach grammar lessons. In fact, I do not like that type of "teachers".
I was just trying to explain to Metin with a few examples the usage of the word in my language which has the same meanings in every Romance language and even in English.
The real purpose was to make a connection between the Latin word and the Romance languages. That's all.
I'm a translator/colleague like anyone else here, ok?
Happy Christmas to everyone!
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Michele Fauble
Estados Unidos
Local time: 06:52
Kasapi (2006)
Norwegian papuntang Ingles
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Ice Scream wrote:
Tom in London wrote:
That's probably because "forte" is not an English word. It's usually used in combination with other words , such as "chess is not my forte" (usually pronounced, rightly or wrongly, as "forty")
I've never heard it pronounced in any way other than fortay, and with the stress on the first syllable
How do you pronounce forte?: Usage Guide
In forte we have a word derived from French that in its "strong point" sense has no entirely satisfactory pronunciation. Usage writers have denigrated \ˈfȯr-ˌtā\ and \ˈfȯr-tē\ because they reflect the influence of the Italian-derived forte entry 2. Their recommended pronunciation \ˈfȯrt\, however, does not exactly reflect French either: the French would write the word le fort and would pronounce it more similar to English for. So you can take your choice, knowing that someone somewhere will dislike whichever variant you choose. All are standard, however. In British English \ˈfȯ-ˌtā\ and \ˈfȯt\ predominate; \ˈfȯr-ˌtā\ and \fȯr-ˈtā\ are probably the most frequent pronunciations in American English.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/forte
[Edited at 2022-12-20 16:57 GMT]
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:52
Kasapi (2008)
Italian papuntang Ingles
| Metin Demirel
Turkiya
Local time: 16:52
Italian papuntang Turkish
+ ...
| Kay Denney
Pransya
Local time: 14:52
French papuntang Ingles
Tom in London wrote:
Kay Denney wrote:
the Infanta's castle became Elephant and Castle
An unusually good piece in Wikipedia says
.....'Elephant and Castle" is a corruption of "La Infanta de Castilla" – allegedly a reference to a series of Spanish princesses such as Eleanor of Castile and María, the daughter of Philip III of Spain. However, Eleanor of Castile was not an infanta (the term only appeared in English about 1600). María has a strong British connection because she was once controversially engaged to Charles I, but she had no connection with Castile. "Infanta de Castilla" therefore seems to be a conflation of two Iberian royals separated by 300 years'
 [Edited at 2022-12-20 12:32 GMT]
Thank you, I knew I could rely on someone fact-checking it for me. I got Marylebone right though hey?
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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:52
Kasapi (2008)
Italian papuntang Ingles
Kay Denney wrote:
I got Marylebone right though hey?
Not quite, but you were warm.
The name Marylebone originates from a church, called "St Mary Le Bon", that was built on the bank of a small stream or "bourne" called the tybourne, in an area named after the stream Tyburn. The church and the surrounding area later became known as St Mary at the bourne, which over time became shortened to its present form Marylebone.
As for "bourne" itself, there are many possible roots:
bourne, "small stream," especially of the winter torrents of the chalk downs, Old English brunna, burna "brook, stream," from Proto-Germanic *brunnoz "spring, fountain" (source also of Old High German brunno, Old Norse brunnr, Old Frisian burna, German Brunnen "fountain," Gothis brunna "well"), ultimately from PIE root *bhreu- "to boil, bubble, effervesce, burn." The southern England form of northern burn.
| | | | Nikolay Novitskiy
Pederasyong Ruso
Local time: 18:52
Kasapi (2018)
Ingles papuntang Russian
| English is quit the easy tongue! | Dec 22, 2022 |
Why, the English is quit the easy tongue! I meen, this is almost impossibly to producing any spelling error while speaking with it. The grammatic is strait-forward and spelling could be checked, from an Oxford English Glossary. Every and each stranger may do talking with it!
| | | | Denis Fesik
Local time: 16:52
Ingles papuntang Russian
+ ...
| I remember making Americans laugh by saying to-mah-toe | Dec 22, 2022 |
They said I was also supposed to say po-tah-toe (which I never did). And I once read a mini-article saying the American way is the only correct one while the British pronunciation is disrespectful to the English language, no explanations being given. I usually score 10 out of 10 in pronunciation quizzes and have no problem pronouncing 'garage' the American way, the regular British way (my go-to version), and the posh British way, but my learning process is far from over, even though I do ... See more They said I was also supposed to say po-tah-toe (which I never did). And I once read a mini-article saying the American way is the only correct one while the British pronunciation is disrespectful to the English language, no explanations being given. I usually score 10 out of 10 in pronunciation quizzes and have no problem pronouncing 'garage' the American way, the regular British way (my go-to version), and the posh British way, but my learning process is far from over, even though I do get my weak forms right (most of the time). A lot of people simply won't hear the differrence between "I don't know" and "I don't, no" (that's what people in the UK often say instead of "No, I don't"). It's fun to hear Americans struggle pronouncing "Worcestershire" (as part of the sauce name, which is actually so easy to pronounce), and still there is no way I'll ever memorize all the principles behind pronouncing UK place names (unless I really go to town studying them, which I probably won't do because I'm lazy). Nothing cringy there, just bewildering. What does sound cringy to me is the voice acting of some modern entertainers where every intonation is calibrated according to science and every sentence sounds like a million dollars. They're either talking to you as if you were a kid or using 'tough guy' voice tricks, but either way, the final product is supposed to liquefy your brain and make you want to buy stuff. Whenever I run into such content, I stop watching (and listening) right away
[Edited at 2022-12-23 13:58 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:52
Kasapi (2008)
Italian papuntang Ingles
Denis Fesik wrote:
What does sound cringy to me is the voice acting of some modern entertainers where every intonation is calibrated according to science and every sentence sounds like a million dollars. They're either talking to you as if you were a kid or using 'tough guy' voice tricks, but either way, the final product is supposed to liquefy your brain and make you want to buy stuff. Whenever I run into such content, I stop watching (and listening) right away
I enjoyed that comment.
There is a very strange thing here in the UK: a belief, in the advertising world, that a voiceover with an American accent will impress the British more and sell more of their product. People seem to think that Americans are somehow more on top of things generally so that if you do what they do, you (a Brit) will be on top too. I suppose this goes back to World War II when Britain was devastated and the Americans arrived with chewing gum, dollars, swing music, and lots and lots of weapons. This was indeed impressive and it made everything better. But hey, it was a long time ago.
[Edited at 2022-12-25 11:49 GMT]
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Kevin Fulton
Estados Unidos
Local time: 08:52
Aleman papuntang Ingles
Tom in London wrote:
There is a very strange thing here in the UK: a belief, in the advertising world, that a voiceover with an American accent will impress the British more and sell more of their product.
[Edited at 2022-12-25 11:49 GMT]
Across the Pond, it's the other way around, oddly enough.
| | | | Metin Demirel
Turkiya
Local time: 16:52
Italian papuntang Turkish
+ ...
The mathematical term "combination" as in permutations and combinations is "kombinezon" in Turkish, a direct loanword from French (combinaison) with its French pronunciation. At least that was the case when I was a student. However, recently I hear Turkish students (as well as teachers) use the word "kombinasyon", as if combination is a French word, while the use of kombinezon is limited to its fashion sense (slip).
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:52
Kasapi (2008)
Italian papuntang Ingles
| Che combinazione | Dec 26, 2022 |
Metin Demirel wrote:
The mathematical term "combination" as in permutations and combinations is "kombinezon" in Turkish, a direct loanword from French (combinaison) with its French pronunciation. At least that was the case when I was a student. However, recently I hear Turkish students (as well as teachers) use the word "kombinasyon", as if combination is a French word, while the use of kombinezon is limited to its fashion sense (slip).
In Italian one meaning of the verb "combinare" means to "put things together" in such a way as to create something mischievous or that could create trouble.
"Ma guarda cosa hai combinato!" = "Just look what you've done!"
In English a "pair of combinations" is old-fashioned ladies' underwear
https://tinyurl.com/2n8o8j22
[Edited at 2022-12-26 09:29 GMT]
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