| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] | Poll: Do you correct people's grammar / language when they are speaking? Thread poster: ProZ.com Staff
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Jack Doughty 
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:08
Russian to English
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In memoriam
To Melzie (which I entered as a title, but now I find that sometimes it's there and sometimes it isn't)
Since you often correct others, I'm sure you won't mind me pointing out that "no holes barred" is wrong, it should be "no holds barred" (the expression comes from wrestling).
[Edited at 2007-09-20 08:18]
| | | | Melzie
Local time: 23:08
French to English
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Of course I don't. Many thanks Jack.
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Something which no one has specified is if we're talking about 1) foreigners speaking our native language or 2) other natives speaking our native language (or indeed, 3) foreigners speaking their native and our second/third language...)
So:
1) I'll sometimes correct my partner (although, as others have pointed out, it's important to let enough go by that you can actually have a conversation - i.e. listen to what they're saying rather than just how they're saying it). And he so... See more Something which no one has specified is if we're talking about 1) foreigners speaking our native language or 2) other natives speaking our native language (or indeed, 3) foreigners speaking their native and our second/third language...)
So:
1) I'll sometimes correct my partner (although, as others have pointed out, it's important to let enough go by that you can actually have a conversation - i.e. listen to what they're saying rather than just how they're saying it). And he sometimes corrects me. I don't correct other people unless it's necessary for comprehension or they specifically ask me to.
2) I'll correct another English friend of mine who also lives in Italy - between us we speak a kind of Italish but we do try to correct (or take the mickey out of) our more laughable back-translations and Italian constructions.
3) Very rarely! Although I did correct my partner when I was still learning Italian and he used the imperfect construction (dovevo farlo) instead of the conditional (avrei dovuto farlo). But that was simply because I didn't understand him (strangely enough Italian grammar books don't seem to teach you common but incorrect grammatical constructions...)
[Edited at 2007-09-20 08:42] ▲ Collapse
| | | | CMJ_Trans (X)
Local time: 23:08
French to English
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| and how irritating some mistakes can be.... | Sep 20, 2007 |
Often I have to bite my nails in frustration because I would be the most hated person in the world if I always spoke my mind but there are times when I let rip:
1) my other half writes French impeccably and often has to correct the efforts of French-speaking members of his staff. However, he sometimes says strange things and I usually correct him on such occasions. I work on the principle that nobody else will tell him....
2) an old colleague and friend used to have the annoying habi... See more Often I have to bite my nails in frustration because I would be the most hated person in the world if I always spoke my mind but there are times when I let rip:
1) my other half writes French impeccably and often has to correct the efforts of French-speaking members of his staff. However, he sometimes says strange things and I usually correct him on such occasions. I work on the principle that nobody else will tell him....
2) an old colleague and friend used to have the annoying habit of saying "between you and I" (he is not alone...). Since this is the only mistake he tends to make (he is English, I should add), and it drove me crazy at the time, I finally cracked and started correcting him. This led to long and erudite discussions about grammar and I think he is now on track.
3) my big frustration is one family we have to visit in the UK where they all say "we was" and "they was". Impossible to tell them to their faces so we adopt the technique of repeating the correct version back at them. This has been going on for so long now that we have realiased they are a lost cause. We just grit our teeth and WINCE.
4) It is sad that in France the subjective and its lovely nuances are going out of fashion. The same in English with "if I was you" instead of "If I were you". The only solution in such cases is indeed to repeat back the sentence the "correct" way.
End of spleen.....
[Edited at 2007-09-20 09:13] ▲ Collapse
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| Y'all makes sense | Sep 20, 2007 |
Lindsay Sabadosa wrote:
In fact, we had a nice laugh yesterday over two things that we heard at the airpot.
1) The Department of Homeland Security advises you to *patrol* your luggage. (Patrol?!?!?!?)
2) (Woman at luggage carousel) "I'll be there is a minute. I'm just waiting on my bags." (Really? Did they want a late lunch or just something to drink... )
Before that (we were in the southereastern US), we were amazed at the way people use "y'all" - one woman asked us "Is that y'all's cart?" I'm assuming it would be written 's because she meant for it to act as a possessive (like, "that's Anne's coat) but doesn't y'all mean "you" and if so, wouldn't the possessive be your? The mind reels...
Actually, I find the southern "y'all" makes sense, even if it's not grammatical. You see, in modern English (thou etc. having disappeared), there's no way of indicating a plural "you" which you sometimes need to do. To be precise, the lady would have had to say "Is this the luggage of all of you?", which sounds a bit pedantic. I think this is the reason for the popularity of "you guys" too, even in English English nowadays. It's a way of showing you're talking to (or about) all of them, not just one of them.
Regards,
Jenny.
| | | | | Only if asked - and NEVER in public | Sep 20, 2007 |
Someone very dear to me has asked me to correct his English grammar, so I do, which often leads to a discussion of grammar generally that is quite good for me too - I have to justify my correction - but I would absolutely NEVER do it in public. It might humiliate him and would certainly make me look schoolmistressy!
I agree with Steven that, on rare occasions, a grammar correction to a tedious and bossy person can put them down a peg or two - especially the infuriatingly widespread "betwe... See more Someone very dear to me has asked me to correct his English grammar, so I do, which often leads to a discussion of grammar generally that is quite good for me too - I have to justify my correction - but I would absolutely NEVER do it in public. It might humiliate him and would certainly make me look schoolmistressy!
I agree with Steven that, on rare occasions, a grammar correction to a tedious and bossy person can put them down a peg or two - especially the infuriatingly widespread "between you and I"!
Regards,
Jenny. ▲ Collapse
| | | | John Cutler
Spain
Local time: 23:08
Spanish to English
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Jenny Forbes wrote:
Actually, I find the southern "y'all" makes sense, even if it's not grammatical. You see, in modern English (thou etc. having disappeared), there's no way of indicating a plural "you" which you sometimes need to do.
Hi Jenny, I couldn't agree more. The plural form of you in English is like a missing link. I suppose just saying "you" is correct when speaking to a group, but it sounds odd, even to native English speakers.
Personally, I like the way the Irish say "yous" with the "s" on the end.
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when they repeat the mistake or say ambiguos things. Only in such cases.
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patyjs
Mexico
Local time: 15:08
Spanish to English
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| I wince inside... | Sep 20, 2007 |
I wince inside when I hear grammatical mistakes from native speakers. I was born and raised in the north of England where the use of "were" instead of "was" is rife. E.g. I went to so-and-so's house, but he weren't in." It bothered me even when I were growing up!
But what bothers me even more is when I hear grammatical mistakes from native English language teachers! I believe this example is "normal" use in some parts of the US but it stings like crazy whenever I hear it:
"... See more I wince inside when I hear grammatical mistakes from native speakers. I was born and raised in the north of England where the use of "were" instead of "was" is rife. E.g. I went to so-and-so's house, but he weren't in." It bothered me even when I were growing up!
But what bothers me even more is when I hear grammatical mistakes from native English language teachers! I believe this example is "normal" use in some parts of the US but it stings like crazy whenever I hear it:
"If I would have arrived on time, I wouldn't have missed the bus."
(Would does not belong in the if-clause. The past perfect is correct: If I had arrived...) A former colleague regularly used this form.
As for foreign speakers, I would definitely not correct unless they specifically asked, and even then I would select my corrections carefully. Sometimes people are so eager to try out their English but their renditions are riddled with errors. It would be completely deflating for them to hear corrections on every other word they said.
Anyway, if it's spoken English it's more likely in a social context and what's important is the content. If everything is clearly understood let's keep the conversation flowing. This is what I always did when I taught English. If we were working on grammar then corrections are expected, but in conversation parts of the lesson, the flow of the language is more important. Discrete correction by repeating the error (correctly) in a response is much more appropriate.
Best to all,
paty
[Edited at 2007-09-20 21:14] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lindsay Sabadosa (X)
United States
Local time: 17:08
Italian to English
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| Speaking of corrections... | Sep 20, 2007 |
Sure, but I wasn't discussing whether the use of "y'all" makes sense or not. I was actually talking about "y'all's" - which you'll agree is different (think of it as if someone had said "thou's" if you'd like ). And as a side note, the woman was speaking to me and only me so a simple "Is this your cart?" would have been fine.
Jenny Forbes wrote:
Actually, I find the southern "y'all" makes sense, even if it's not grammatical. You see, in modern English (thou etc. having disappeared), there's no way of indicating a plural "you" which you sometimes need to do. To be precise, the lady would have had to say "Is this the luggage of all of you?", which sounds a bit pedantic. I think this is the reason for the popularity of "you guys" too, even in English English nowadays. It's a way of showing you're talking to (or about) all of them, not just one of them.
Regards,
Jenny.
| | | | Lindsay Sabadosa (X)
United States
Local time: 17:08
Italian to English
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| For Steven: Wait for v. wait on | Sep 20, 2007 |
Actually, according to Meriam-Webster.com, "American dialectologists have evidence showing "wait on" to be more a Southern than a Northern form in speech. Handbook writers universally denigrate wait on and prescribe wait for in writing." So I guess you're right that it is more of a colloquialism but to my New England ears, it just sounds wrong.
[quote]Steven Capsuto wrote:
I wonder if it's derived from Yiddish, since most of the people I know who use it are Jews from Brooklyn.
| | | | patyjs
Mexico
Local time: 15:08
Spanish to English
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| And another thing... | Sep 20, 2007 |
Where on earth does the wildly irritating "off of" come from? For example in "Take your hands off of me!"
Now that's when I really have to bite my tongue...
(My apologies to those prozians who use this in conversation..I'm sure there are lots, it's so common)
In any case, the question is a serious one. Where does it come from? Is it regional? And if so, from where?
Paty
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| Now listen up, all y'all....;-) | Sep 21, 2007 |
Jenny Forbes wrote:
Actually, I find the southern "y'all" makes sense, even if it's not grammatical. You see, in modern English (thou etc. having disappeared), there's no way of indicating a plural "you" which you sometimes need to do. To be precise, the lady would have had to say "Is this the luggage of all of you?", which sounds a bit pedantic. I think this is the reason for the popularity of "you guys" too, even in English English nowadays. It's a way of showing you're talking to (or about) all of them, not just one of them.
Regards,
Jenny.
In my experience (3 years of living in Texas), the more emphatic forms "both y'all" or "both of y'all" and "all y'all" (the possessives being "both y'all's" and "all y'all's") are also used...
In Scotland, "youse", "all of youse", "both of youse" and "youse guys" are commonly heard.
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[quote]Lindsay Sabadosa wrote:
Actually, according to Meriam-Webster.com, "American dialectologists have evidence showing "wait on" to be more a Southern than a Northern form in speech. Handbook writers universally denigrate wait on and prescribe wait for in writing." So I guess you're right that it is more of a colloquialism but to my New England ears, it just sounds wrong.
Steven Capsuto wrote:
I wonder if it's derived from Yiddish, since most of the people I know who use it are Jews from Brooklyn.
"Wait on" for "wait for" is common in Scotland too.
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