| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13] > | Limits have been instituted on the number of questions one can ask in 24 hours Thread poster: Jason Grimes
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Aleksandr Okunev (X)
Local time: 03:15
English to Russian
| There might be a rule, written or not | Aug 5, 2005 |
gad wrote: The "dictionary question" is good, too, for obvious reasons. Will those voting on this be asked to give a reference to which dictionary and/or dictionary site? I actually had one person make a snide remark to one question I asked some time ago, to the effect that "anyone with a dictionary should be able to find that out", when the word was not only not in a general dictionary, but it was not in several specialized paper dictionaries nor was it in the online terminology bases (GDT, etc.). Or, what if it's NORMALLY a "dictionary", but appears in a certain context where it requires a little further research to figure it out?
Unless I am very short of time I always make a comment why I agree and always - when I disagree in Kudoz. I have never voted for reclassification, but if I were to, I'd certainly provide grounds for my initiative. I think it's natural to do this, and, speaking, practically, we are given brownies for our Kudoz comments and might as well consider being more elaborate.
Stay well
Aleksandr
[Edited at 2005-08-06 06:53]
| | | | Lota
United States
Local time: 17:15
Member (2007)
English to Polish
+ ...
| Problem with question limitation and problem with the 24 hours period | Aug 7, 2005 |
Hello,
I don't see why asking more questions than 5 is a problem. If people do not check glossaries, a friendly soul can direct them there and close the question for this reason (entry is already in glossary). This deals with the issue -- "people don't check glossaries before posting".
I do not see any other rational excuses for limiting the questions. Remember, that no one has to answer. If you don't like the question (the poster?), don't answer!
So this i... See more Hello,
I don't see why asking more questions than 5 is a problem. If people do not check glossaries, a friendly soul can direct them there and close the question for this reason (entry is already in glossary). This deals with the issue -- "people don't check glossaries before posting".
I do not see any other rational excuses for limiting the questions. Remember, that no one has to answer. If you don't like the question (the poster?), don't answer!
So this is it on this topic. A related topic is that I am doing a very big job, over 500 pages. There are some terms that I am not familiar with. I do not have a Polish-English mathematical/statistical dictionary. There are perhaps 30 terms in the whole document that I will have a hard time with, unless someone can help me. Yesterday I asked my 5 questions and got wonderful responses. Now, over 24 hours later, I want to ask additional 5 but the system is not letting me do so. My work is delayed, I am stuck. The terms are not in glossaries. I am reasonably diligent about checking glossaries.
So is there a glitch that does not permit to REALLY ask questions after 24 hours? Is it based on a clock?
Anyhow, I find it disappointing that this restriction was imposed. It is an inconvenient solution to a non-problem.
Thank you.
Lota ▲ Collapse
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Henry wrote: Aleksandr Okunev wrote:
I assumed that when I paid plat this limitation was not in the EULA. Now it is introduced by Proz unilaterally. I'm too busy to investigate the legal aspects of this but I sure do not appreciate being treated as a silent mass. Nobody asked me about it... This is a fair point. You should know that the suggestion for this limitation came from platinum members, and it was agreed to among (mostly platinum) moderators. So for ProZ.com staff members, contrary to being something we imposed, it was something we accepted. It is true that we did not go to the general platinum membership for a vote, but I am willing to do that - as soon as it is given a chance. If you do not like the limitation in a few weeks, raise the issue again. We'll see how the general platinum membership feels at that time, and if the consensus is against it, we will revisit the decision amongst moderators and staff. We would be less likely to reconsider limits among non-platinum members (although we are keeping an open mind on KudoZ earners.)
I am happy to hear that there may be a reconsideration regarding Kudoz earners!
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| UNJUST and UNFAIR | Aug 8, 2005 |
I think it is ABSOLUTELY NOT FAIR with regard to new KudoZ members. How are they supposed to get a great deal of kudoz points now that the number of questions is much less than it was before? If they are beginners at that, they are going to have a VERY hard time earning KudoZ points, since there are SO MANY ‘old’ and highly experienced kudoz members to compete with them. I think that, previously, more or less easy questions were good for beginners to get the hang of it. But from now on, many... See more I think it is ABSOLUTELY NOT FAIR with regard to new KudoZ members. How are they supposed to get a great deal of kudoz points now that the number of questions is much less than it was before? If they are beginners at that, they are going to have a VERY hard time earning KudoZ points, since there are SO MANY ‘old’ and highly experienced kudoz members to compete with them. I think that, previously, more or less easy questions were good for beginners to get the hang of it. But from now on, many new members will be simply pushed to the background. What are they supposed to begin with? Or is this website only meant for highly professional super-duper translators and there’s no place for guys with less experience? Tell me please who of us, even the most super-duper-pooper ones, weren’t beginners long ago? So why kick around other beginners now? Why not let them start with easier questions to get their first kudos points? Even if many of new members are highly experienced translators already, I repeat – it is NOT FAIR, since none of those prozians who now have several thousands kudoz points were restricted at all when they were beginning their activities on KudoZ, experienced or not. Are people having 4,000-6,000-8,000 or more points happy to know that new KudoZ members will never catch up with them now?
And I also think that 1-5-15 is too greedy, really. What if I, as a non-platinum member, need to ask more than 5 questions a day? OK, I’m going to become platinum soon, but what about others who aren’t? ▲ Collapse
| | | | David Rumsey 
Canada
Local time: 17:15
Member (2004)
Swedish to English
+ ...
| This is completely unfair | Aug 8, 2005 |
I don't remember every being asked whether this was something we requested. I don't feel this was implemented fairly.
If some members have a problem with too many Kudoz questions, then they can simply ignore/delete them or change their settings to make them more restrictive!
Also, those of us that would like to answer the Kudoz questions, are limited in the number of Kudoz points we can generate.
It's stupid to assume that people haven't done their own net ... See more I don't remember every being asked whether this was something we requested. I don't feel this was implemented fairly.
If some members have a problem with too many Kudoz questions, then they can simply ignore/delete them or change their settings to make them more restrictive!
Also, those of us that would like to answer the Kudoz questions, are limited in the number of Kudoz points we can generate.
It's stupid to assume that people haven't done their own net searches before resorting to Kudoz. Obviously, they have because it takes a lot longer to get a response back.
Morever, many kudoz questions involve obscure meanings or complicated grammar points that may not show up on the net or in a dictionary.
I think this is a ridiculous restriction. I suspect another enterprising individual will create a similar website without such restrictions.
Stupid way to screw over your customers!! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lota
United States
Local time: 17:15
Member (2007)
English to Polish
+ ...
| frustration, frustration | Aug 8, 2005 |
[quote]David Rumsey wrote:
If some members have a problem with too many Kudoz questions, then they can simply ignore/delete them or change their settings to make them more restrictive!
I agree with every single point that David made. The one above illustrates most poignantly the fact that the silly restriction to a 5 question limit within 24 hours does not address the real problem that may or may not exist.
If there is a complaint that people ask questions before checking glossaries FIRST, then imposing this limit does not address the problem. People will still ask 5 questions without checking glossaries!
Seems to me that this new idea is supposed to be a solution to some problem. But what was the problem? I would like to see it stated clearly. If people asking questions to which there are answers in glossaries is a problem, then the solution would be to block such questions. With adequately developed software it could happen automatically. Without it, friendly folks at ProZ equipped with moderator status could easily delete such questions. Waste of time, you say? Well, no one is forced to do anything here: answer questions, squash repeated questions, remove questions for other reasons. And yet it happens! There are enough willing people on this forum to self-regulate what is going on.
This "solution" is childish and unreasonable. I completely fail to understand the relief some people are expressing. What exactly bothered you if someone asked 50 questions a day?? You do NOT have to respond to them or even look at them.
There is a Polish saying about such situations: "a gardener's dog". What it implied is that this is such a dog that will not eat goods from the garden and will not let anyone do so, either." So why do we have have so many gardener's dogs here? What are they/you guarding?
Cheers!
Lota
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| Partial (Job) Platinum | Aug 8, 2005 |
Jason Grimes wrote:
1 for non-members
5 for non-platinums
15 for platinums
Just to make sure I have understood correctly: my Partial (Job) Platinum membership (70 USD) only entitles me to 5 questions (new rule on existing membership)
Henry wrote:
(Note that those who had Community Platinum memberships already will continue to have access to the Blue Board.)
Bur the already active Partial Community Platinum members (those bought before limits were introduced and price lowered to 48USD) continue to have access to the Blue Board.
It's not a great issue for me, I have not asked many questions and in my case I imagine the 5 per day limit is fine, however, if no restriction has been applied to existing Community Platinum Memberships for Blueboard access why has a limitation on Kudoz been applied to existing Partial Job Platinum membership?
I might have misunderstood, so thanks in advance if anyone can explain. DZ
| | | | | Limits have been instituted | Aug 8, 2005 |
Lota wrote:
Seems to me that this new idea is supposed to be a solution to some problem. But what was the problem? I would like to see it stated clearly.
This "solution" is childish and unreasonable. I completely fail to understand the relief some people are expressing. What exactly bothered you if someone asked 50 questions a day?? You do NOT have to respond to them or even look at them.
Hi Lota, you'd like to know what the "problem" was? Have a look at this forum discussion:
One member wrote:
"for the past couple of days, there have been a few people out there who are diligently slicing up their translations into bite-sized portions and posting them little by little on the site. Their names give them away. There is also one person, who shall be nameless, who has been spreading his/her text out over a matter of days, doubtless in the hope of going unnoticed.
Something has to be done to stop this sort of thing because if the translators concerned are unable to do the job, they should go in for another profession and the real pros should not be helping them to "cheat".
http://www.proz.com/topic/34601
It was one of very many such discussions about this subject over a period of several years. When members complain over and over again about some members asking too many questions, moderators and site staff listen. Members spoke and ProZ.com listened. Now we have an attempt to solve the problem an overwhelming number of members complained about. We're trying it out to see if it works. If it doesn't, I'm sure we'll try something else.
Kim
[Edited at 2005-08-08 19:43]
[Edited at 2005-08-08 19:44]
| | | | Lota
United States
Local time: 17:15
Member (2007)
English to Polish
+ ...
| more on the same... | Aug 8, 2005 |
[quote]Kim Metzger wrote:
Hi Lota, you'd like to know what the "problem" was? Have a look at this forum discussion:
1.One member wrote:
"for the past couple of days, there have been a few people out there who are diligently slicing up their translations into bite-sized portions and posting them little by little on the site.
/slash/
2. It was one of very many such discussions about this subject over a period of several years. When members complain over and over again about some members asking too many questions, moderators and site staff listen. Members spoke and ProZ.com listened.
Hi,
Thanks, Kim, for your response. It seems to me that it is reasonable to expect that when one runs into a difficult portion of a text one is translating, one would do several things: 1. go to another translator and pay them for translation of this portion 2. use dictionaries and glossaries 3. use a resource such as ProZ and do precisely this: diligently slice the relevant portion and post it.
I see it perfectly feasible that a reasonable person (translator) can do all three or a little bit of each!
So you are concerned that less-than-ethical people will use this board and get whole translations done by Proz members? Look, it is very simple: you DON'T have to help such a person. You can ignore their questions! *This* is the solution. If more people ignore them, they will not get that job done. I doubt though that there are hordes of translators who would take on a job to translate something for money and have no clue what they are doing. Do you speak Bantu? Would you take on a Bantu translation (assuming that you don't speak it) and slice it up (diligently) and post it on ProZ?
As for your comment number 2 (numering mine), no one asked *me* if I wanted this limitation. There was not a poll in which all ProZ members could participate, as far as know. It also seems to me that this limitation is not a response to a democratic, popular raising but rather it is an imposition with a totalitarian attitude. Why five and not six? Why different split for different people?
I am uncomfortable with childish solutions like this. One can do it to children because they have little life wisdom but we are reasonable adults. Why do you need for someone to take decisions for you as to how many questions you answer from a particular person??? Right now, if you are a Plat, you are NOT allowed to answer more than 5 of my questions every 24 hours. What id you *want* to answer 25 of my questions?
Childish and immature, this is how I see it. Both the complaining and the elation among those who are so elated.
Thanks for your reply nonetheless.
Lota
| | | | Rosa Maria Duenas Rios (X)
Local time: 20:15
| I am with Kim | Aug 8, 2005 |
Kim Metzger wrote:
It was one of very many such discussions about this subject over a period of several years. When members complain over and over again about some members asking too many questions, moderators and site staff listen. Members spoke and ProZ.com listened. Now we have an attempt to solve the problem an overwhelming number of members complained about. We're trying it out to see if it works. If it doesn't, I'm sure we'll try something else.
And I believe that using words like stupid, ridiculous, screw over, silly, childish, unreasonable, and immature to describe the attempt at solving the problem does not contribute at all to improve the site. I also believe it is not fair for staff and moderatos who have spent countless hours "listening" to us, and designing a possible solution. I hope this discussion can be kept at more polite levels.
One thing that apparently is becoming evident is that the problem is perceived more as such in the most common pairs (English-Spanish, English-French, English-German for instance), while people who work with less common languages tend to consider the solution more as a hindrance. This might help moderators and staff come up with other ideas to try and keep us all happy. Thanks again to them for listening to us!
[Edited at 2005-08-09 01:04]
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Angela Arnone
Local time: 02:15
Member (2004)
Italian to English
+ ...
| I beg your pardon? | Aug 8, 2005 |
Would you care to elaborate, David?
Look beyond the "generation" of kudoz points and consider the professionalism of someone who has accepted a job and needs to ask in excess of 15 kudoz a day.
Call me unrealistic, but I've never been in a situation where I've needed to consult (total strangers, BTW) to get a job finished by asking for that amount of help, and I am unable to understand how anyone can get into that situation.
Perhaps limiting kudoz may be "generating" awarenes... See more Would you care to elaborate, David?
Look beyond the "generation" of kudoz points and consider the professionalism of someone who has accepted a job and needs to ask in excess of 15 kudoz a day.
Call me unrealistic, but I've never been in a situation where I've needed to consult (total strangers, BTW) to get a job finished by asking for that amount of help, and I am unable to understand how anyone can get into that situation.
Perhaps limiting kudoz may be "generating" awareness that you should not accept jobs that you are insufficiently experienced to do.
If I was outsourcing through kudoz I wouldn't offer a job to someone who was posting reams of kudoz and publicly seeking help from people whose reliability is often unvouched for. The choice of graded answers opting for nonsensical or incorrect replies is glaring proof of this. To put it bluntly, the blind leading the blind. And it is a major source of criticism of this site - at international level.
I, for one, am a customer who does not feel she is being "screwed over" by Proz management limiting questions asked.
I feel as if my professionalism is being enhanced and safeguarded.
Angela
David Rumsey wrote:
Stupid way to screw over your customers!!
[Edited at 2005-08-08 22:01] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lota
United States
Local time: 17:15
Member (2007)
English to Polish
+ ...
| some conclusions | Aug 8, 2005 |
It has become obvious that indeed, people in various language pairs feel differently about the new restriction.
What seems odd to me is that there is a group that seems to be preoccupied with the quality of other people's translation. If a poor translator does the job you didn't get, so what? Maybe his/her client will learn. Why does it bother you that someone asks many questions? Indeed, the person could be just starting out, the person could be short of dictionaries, maybe this is... See more It has become obvious that indeed, people in various language pairs feel differently about the new restriction.
What seems odd to me is that there is a group that seems to be preoccupied with the quality of other people's translation. If a poor translator does the job you didn't get, so what? Maybe his/her client will learn. Why does it bother you that someone asks many questions? Indeed, the person could be just starting out, the person could be short of dictionaries, maybe this is an assignment they are completing outside of their home/office and some unexpected terminology came up. Whatever the reasons, isn't it so simple to just ignore such questions?
There are so many scenarios that can happen to the best of us. I find it odd that a translator said somewhere in this discussion she would find it unthinkable to ask 20 or more questions of perfect strangers to complete a translation.
Really? Just recently, I had a job of 500 pages. How many words do you think I needed to look up for such a job? Would 30 be really a lot if I could not find them in a dictionary? And while ProZ members are strangers to each other, we can easily check out each answer provided and use it responsibly (or not).
We all have different skills and experience and it is wonderful that a forum like this exist. You know how terribly unsatisfactory some dictionary entries/explanations can be and sometimes it is so assuring to get ideas from live people who work in the same field. Could they be crooks? Of course. But why assume so? This is a great forum and it stumbled on something and attempted to "solve" it. The problem is, in my opinion, non-existent, if you make a decision that you will not answer any questions you don't want. This is why I think the solution is childish. This is not an insult but this is how I see it. Kids do things like this one to another (especially older ones to younger ones) but a restriction of this sort in a forum that is strictly voluntary in nature is an ill-fitted band-aid that does not solve anything.
I think there are many people who do not like this band-aid but are not vocal. I hope there will be more voices of those who are silent now. Perhaps like me, they haven't run into these restrictions yet while they were completing a big job with deadlines.
Thanks.
Lota ▲ Collapse
| | | | carmen05
Uruguay
Local time: 21:15
English to Spanish
+ ...
I do not see the advantages of this.
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