| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7] > | Off topic: Impact of COVID 19 Pandemic to you Thread poster: freezone (X)
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Jan Truper 
Germany
Local time: 13:48
Member (2016)
English to German
Gerard Barry wrote:
I would say most people didn't need three doses, or even two. I got one dose of Moderna (I didn't actually want it but the German state was treating the "unvaccinated" like dirt so I caved in) and then tested positive for Covid two weeks later. No more doses for me! This idea that everyone needed to be vaccinated against Covid was rubbish from the beginning. Our bodies, our choice.
Thank you for answering the OPs question of how the pandemic has affected your mental health in such a candid and conclusive fashion.
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Gerard Barry wrote:
I would say most people didn't need three doses, or even two. I got one dose of Moderna (I didn't actually want it but the German state was treating the "unvaccinated" like dirt so I caved in) and then tested positive for Covid two weeks later. No more doses for me! This idea that everyone needed to be vaccinated against Covid was rubbish from the beginning. Our bodies, our choice.
While it does appear to be the dominance of Omicron rather than vaccination that has enabled life to return to near-normal, the vaccines clearly saved a lot of lives last year and may well still be doing so now.
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Jan Truper wrote: Gerard Barry wrote:
I would say most people didn't need three doses, or even two. I got one dose of Moderna (I didn't actually want it but the German state was treating the "unvaccinated" like dirt so I caved in) and then tested positive for Covid two weeks later. No more doses for me! This idea that everyone needed to be vaccinated against Covid was rubbish from the beginning. Our bodies, our choice. Thank you for answering the OPs question of how the pandemic has affected your mental health in such a candid and conclusive fashion.
I beg your pardon?
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Ice Scream wrote: Gerard Barry wrote:
I would say most people didn't need three doses, or even two. I got one dose of Moderna (I didn't actually want it but the German state was treating the "unvaccinated" like dirt so I caved in) and then tested positive for Covid two weeks later. No more doses for me! This idea that everyone needed to be vaccinated against Covid was rubbish from the beginning. Our bodies, our choice. While it does appear to be the dominance of Omicron rather than vaccination that has enabled life to return to near-normal, the vaccines clearly saved a lot of lives last year and may well still be doing so now.
How on earth do you know that? In other words: prove that the vaccines have saved lives. We know that the number of cases has exploded since vaccination started. We simply cannot know if the vaccines have saved lives. For young, healthy people, Covid was never much of a threat. If it were, we'd have seen millions of children and young people dying worldwide from Covid but they haven't.
You're applying the same logic as all those vaccinated people who got Covid - sometimes with not so minor symptoms - and convince themselves that they would have been even sicker were it not for the vaccine. Completely unprovable and they ignore the fact that the majority of the "unvaccinated" still haven't had one positive test and the vast majority haven't ended up in hospital, yet alone dead.
[Edited at 2022-03-31 16:37 GMT]
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TonyTK
German to English
+ ...
Gerard Barry wrote:
I would say most people didn't need three doses, or even two. I got one dose of Moderna (I didn't actually want it but the German state was treating the "unvaccinated" like dirt so I caved in) and then tested positive for Covid two weeks later. No more doses for me! This idea that everyone needed to be vaccinated against Covid was rubbish from the beginning. Our bodies, our choice.
...
We know that the number of cases has exploded since vaccination started. We simply cannot know if the vaccines have saved lives. For young, healthy people, Covid was never much of a threat. If it were, we'd have seen millions of children and young people dying worldwide from Covid but they haven't.
(I've quoted from two different posts of yours in this thread for the sake of convenience.)
In what way exactly was the German state "treating the unvaccinated like dirt"? I have plenty of friends who aren't vaccinated, but I've never heard any of them complain. There were very brief periods during which non-vaccinated people had to pay for tests or were under restrictions in parts of the retail/hospitality sector in certain regions of Germany, but that was about it.
I think the data on vaccines saving lives is abundantly clear and that vaccination is a no-brainer, but what other people choose to do is none of my business. What I find bemusing is the notion that vaccination is a first step on the path to authoritarianism or that there's some big "reset" plan. You might have noticed that the major coalition partners in Germany who were behind the strictest regulations were recently voted out of office. Curtailing people's freedom - even when warranted - is evidently not a good strategy if you want to stay popular with voters.
I have little sympathy for the supposed plight of the non-vaccinated, to be honest. When it comes to corona restrictions, I reserve it for single people in general, teens bursting with hormones, women in abusive relationships, the people in the arts and the hospitality/tourism sector who are struggling to survive or have gone under, all the single parents who were alone with kids for months on end, the kids with parents unable to help them with their learning, the lonely old people who were already isolated before the pandemic began, the billions of people around the world who we shafted when we decided to keep most the vaccine for ourselves ...
| | | | | But not because ... | Apr 1, 2022 |
TonyTK wrote:
You might have noticed that the major coalition partners in Germany who were behind the strictest regulations were recently voted out of office. Curtailing people's freedom - even when warranted - is evidently not a good strategy if you want to stay popular with voters.
... of the reason, that the major coalition partners were behind the strictest regulations (which are no longer necessary because of the more harmless variant of COVID 19), otherwise the ultra-right party, who have spread all that conspiracy rubbish, would have won the votes or at least significantly increased their share. In fact, especially they have lost a share of the vote.
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TonyTK wrote: Gerard Barry wrote:
I would say most people didn't need three doses, or even two. I got one dose of Moderna (I didn't actually want it but the German state was treating the "unvaccinated" like dirt so I caved in) and then tested positive for Covid two weeks later. No more doses for me! This idea that everyone needed to be vaccinated against Covid was rubbish from the beginning. Our bodies, our choice.
...
We know that the number of cases has exploded since vaccination started. We simply cannot know if the vaccines have saved lives. For young, healthy people, Covid was never much of a threat. If it were, we'd have seen millions of children and young people dying worldwide from Covid but they haven't.
(I've quoted from two different posts of yours in this thread for the sake of convenience.) In what way exactly was the German state "treating the unvaccinated like dirt"? I have plenty of friends who aren't vaccinated, but I've never heard any of them complain. There were very brief periods during which non-vaccinated people had to pay for tests or were under restrictions in parts of the retail/hospitality sector in certain regions of Germany, but that was about it. I think the data on vaccines saving lives is abundantly clear and that vaccination is a no-brainer, but what other people choose to do is none of my business. What I find bemusing is the notion that vaccination is a first step on the path to authoritarianism or that there's some big "reset" plan. You might have noticed that the major coalition partners in Germany who were behind the strictest regulations were recently voted out of office. Curtailing people's freedom - even when warranted - is evidently not a good strategy if you want to stay popular with voters. I have little sympathy for the supposed plight of the non-vaccinated, to be honest. When it comes to corona restrictions, I reserve it for single people in general, teens bursting with hormones, women in abusive relationships, the people in the arts and the hospitality/tourism sector who are struggling to survive or have gone under, all the single parents who were alone with kids for months on end, the kids with parents unable to help them with their learning, the lonely old people who were already isolated before the pandemic began, the billions of people around the world who we shafted when we decided to keep most the vaccine for ourselves ...
I think being excluded from "non-essential" shops and restaurants/bars was blatant discrimination and I felt extremely hurt by it. We were also de facto excluded from the workplace (I lost my job over it) and even public transport through the 3G rule. In terms of epidemiology, it made no sense as it became obvious throughout the course of last year that the vaccinated were spreading Covid as much as anyone else.
I also find it baffling how you say you support the restrictions and then mention a long list of people who you know suffered under said restrictions. You can't have it both ways! The restrictions were not a matter of course and were always political decisions. The suffering was needless. Look at Sweden and certain states in the US.
PS: How are your unvaccinated friends doing? All still alive and kicking like myself and all the unvaxxed who I know?
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Matthias Brombach wrote: TonyTK wrote:
You might have noticed that the major coalition partners in Germany who were behind the strictest regulations were recently voted out of office. Curtailing people's freedom - even when warranted - is evidently not a good strategy if you want to stay popular with voters.
... of the reason, that the major coalition partners were behind the strictest regulations (which are no longer necessary because of the more harmless variant of COVID 19), otherwise the ultra-right party, who have spread all that conspiracy rubbish, would have won the votes or at least significantly increased their share. In fact, especially they have lost a share of the vote.
The "ultra-right" party in Germany did not spread any "conspiracy theories". What they did was oppose most of the draconian authoritarian restrictions imposed by the communist/fascist German government. In democratic countries, we call that opposition and it's considered to be a good thing.
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TonyTK
German to English
+ ...
| If you lost your job ..., | Apr 1, 2022 |
Gerard Barry wrote:
I think being excluded from "non-essential" shops and restaurants/bars was blatant discrimination and I felt extremely hurt by it. We were also de facto excluded from the workplace (I lost my job over it) and even public transport through the 3G rule. In terms of epidemiology, it made no sense as it became obvious throughout the course of last year that the vaccinated were spreading Covid as much as anyone else.
I also find it baffling how you say you support the restrictions and then mention a long list of people who you know suffered under said restrictions. You can't have it both ways! The restrictions were not a matter of course and were always political decisions. The suffering was needless. Look at Sweden and certain states in the US.
... then you certainly have my sympathy. Do you mind if I ask what happened?
3G (which, for the unitiated, means Geimpft, Genesen, Gestestet - vaccinated, recovered, tested) wasn't really discriminatory, as free tests were widely available the whole time with the exception of a few weeks late last year. Here in southern Germany, we've organised 10 open air concerts during the pandemic under "3G" and always offered free testing. A few people refused to take a test because they said we were harvesting their DNA (wacko territory in my view).
For much of the pandemic, restrictions in Germany were not nearly as tough as they were in France, Spain, Italy or the UK. Sweden's an interesting one: even they closed schools and introduced restrictions in the big cities. It's not as if they let it rip. Without wishing to get involved in a corona back-and forth, I think it's fair to say that mortality in Sweden should be more properly compared to that in Denmark and Norway (just compare population density in the different countries of Europe). Having said that, I also think that the way the pandemic was managed towards the end of 2020 and during 2021 here in Germany was quite the sh*t-show - and that a lot of suffering could have been avoided. Factor in the regular regional elections in Germany and the national elections last year, and you have a recipe for disaster, where no one wants to make themselves unpopular. I also think that the anti-restriction stance of the FDP was why they got so many votes.
But like I said, I'm not really interested in the big debate - whether it's corona or Ukraine - and it's always easy to criticise politicians if you're not in their shoes. I believe we should focus our energy on playing what's in front of us. God knows, there's enough to do. Like Jo's doing by offering accommodation to refugees, and like countless other people involved in volunteer work are doing. One less Netflix binge a week frees up plenty of time to visit an oldie in a home, help kids catch up on their learning or take a couple of refugees for a big shop.
The reason I take exception to the idea that the non-vaccinated have been treated like dirt "by the state" is that it suggests a victim mindset that ignores that there are so many truly disadvantaged people in every town in Germany who have really suffered during the past two years (my only caveat being that you lost your job, but I don't have sufficient information to have an opinion on that).
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TonyTK wrote: Gerard Barry wrote:
I think being excluded from "non-essential" shops and restaurants/bars was blatant discrimination and I felt extremely hurt by it. We were also de facto excluded from the workplace (I lost my job over it) and even public transport through the 3G rule. In terms of epidemiology, it made no sense as it became obvious throughout the course of last year that the vaccinated were spreading Covid as much as anyone else.
I also find it baffling how you say you support the restrictions and then mention a long list of people who you know suffered under said restrictions. You can't have it both ways! The restrictions were not a matter of course and were always political decisions. The suffering was needless. Look at Sweden and certain states in the US.
... then you certainly have my sympathy. Do you mind if I ask what happened? 3G (which, for the unitiated, means Geimpft, Genesen, Gestestet - vaccinated, recovered, tested) wasn't really discriminatory, as free tests were widely available the whole time with the exception of a few weeks late last year. Here in southern Germany, we've organised 10 open air concerts during the pandemic under "3G" and always offered free testing. A few people refused to take a test because they said we were harvesting their DNA (wacko territory in my view). For much of the pandemic, restrictions in Germany were not nearly as tough as they were in France, Spain, Italy or the UK. Sweden's an interesting one: even they closed schools and introduced restrictions in the big cities. It's not as if they let it rip. Without wishing to get involved in a corona back-and forth, I think it's fair to say that mortality in Sweden should be more properly compared to that in Denmark and Norway (just compare population density in the different countries of Europe). Having said that, I also think that the way the pandemic was managed towards the end of 2020 and during 2021 here in Germany was quite the sh*t-show - and that a lot of suffering could have been avoided. Factor in the regular regional elections in Germany and the national elections last year, and you have a recipe for disaster, where no one wants to make themselves unpopular. I also think that the anti-restriction stance of the FDP was why they got so many votes. But like I said, I'm not really interested in the big debate - whether it's corona or Ukraine - and it's always easy to criticise politicians if you're not in their shoes. I believe we should focus our energy on playing what's in front of us. God knows, there's enough to do. Like Jo's doing by offering accommodation to refugees, and like countless other people involved in volunteer work are doing. One less Netflix binge a week frees up plenty of time to visit an oldie in a home, help kids catch up on their learning or take a couple of refugees for a big shop. The reason I take exception to the idea that the non-vaccinated have been treated like dirt "by the state" is that it suggests a victim mindset that ignores that there are so many truly disadvantaged people in every town in Germany who have really suffered during the past two years (my only caveat being that you lost your job, but I don't have sufficient information to have an opinion on that).
I lost my job because of the 3G rule. Being "unvaccinated", I had to queue up every evening at a test centre to prove I was Covid free. Remember: self-tests weren't sufficient. I did this for about a week but my resentment was growing all the time. No matter what you say the 3G rule was discriminatory because it meant that only the unvaccinated had to test themselves - despite the fact that the vaccinated and the recovered also catch and spread Covid. Eventually I got into an argument with my boss over it and was fired on the spot for refusing to show my negative Covid test and for telling my boss where to go. Not only that but the unemployment office didn't pay me any unemployment benefit for the first three months as my employer claimed I acted in breach of contract. So yes, I (and the other unvaccinated in this country) have been treated like dirt and I make no apologies to anyone for saying so. It annoys me how people say "oh but the restrictions were even tougher in other countries!" I don't care. I experienced the Covid "pandemic" in Germany and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. So much needless suffering over a virus with an extremely low case fatality rate.
| | | | | Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member because it was not in line with site rule | | Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member because it was not in line with site rule |
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Anna1307 wrote:
Germany had ......the strictest rules in the world.
Wrong, sorry, only in Italy vaccination for over 50 is mandatory, under penalty of being fired (any job) plus a 100 euros direct fine.
I will not discuss pro or against vaccination, but information must be correct.
[Edited at 2022-04-05 19:09 GMT]
| | | | TonyTK
German to English
+ ...
Anna1307 wrote:
Germany had ... the strictest rules in the world. We went from "15 days to flatten the curve" to ... "your bank accounts are frozen if you protest against us"
(Ho-hum ...)
[Bearbeitet am 2022-04-06 07:26 GMT]
| | | | Anna A. K.
Germany
Local time: 13:48
Member (2020)
English to German
Angie Garbarino wrote: Anna1307 wrote:
Germany had ......the strictest rules in the world. Wrong, sorry, only in Italy vaccination for over 50 is mandatory, under penalty of being fired (any job) plus a 100 euros direct fine. I will not discuss pro or against vaccination, but information must be correct. [Edited at 2022-04-05 19:09 GMT]
You are not in Germany, so please don't tell me how Germany is doing. Thanks.
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