| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Poll: Have you been asked to adapt a translation to include gender-neutral people? Thread poster: ProZ.com Staff
|
|---|
| Reformulating family law | Mar 1, 2023 |
I was once asked to translate a new draft of sections of family law, where for example expressions such as Spouse 1 and Spouse 2 or Parent 1 and Parent 2 were used instead of husband, wife, mother and father.
I went along with it - I believe in equality.
In many cases either parent, it does not matter which, is responsible for a child, or there are situations where rights are not affected by gender, or should not be. Spouses generally have equal rights and responsibilit... See more I was once asked to translate a new draft of sections of family law, where for example expressions such as Spouse 1 and Spouse 2 or Parent 1 and Parent 2 were used instead of husband, wife, mother and father.
I went along with it - I believe in equality.
In many cases either parent, it does not matter which, is responsible for a child, or there are situations where rights are not affected by gender, or should not be. Spouses generally have equal rights and responsibilities too in Danish and English law.
There are so many situations where gender is irrelevant. Entitlement to education, a driving licence, making a purchase - in the UK and Denmark everyone has the same rights, so I try to keep gender out of these situations as far as possible.
When it comes to maternity leave and physical situations where gender does make a difference, I use the appropriate gender pronouns, and for a named person I would check with the client if there was any doubt.
Sometimes it is quite difficult to maintain neutrality. My source language has gender-neutral reflexive pronouns, while in English the choice is between himself, herself, or itself (his, her or its), unless you go for the ´singular they´. Increasingly, I do, after resisting it for many years, as it seems to be more widely accepted. ▲ Collapse
| | | |
Alessandra Turconi wrote:
... I translate subtitles and the audiovisual field is introducing non binary characters in movies and tv shows.
The poll question asks specifically about the ‘adaptation’ of a translation to ‘include gender-neutral people’.
The obvious implication is that we’re talking about a source text which is not written in ‘inclusive’ language, but the client is asking for the translation to be ‘inclusive’.
In any work of fiction involving one or more non-binary characters, the way the other characters use, avoid using, and even deliberately misuse appropriately gendered language (‘dead-naming’ and related negationist tactics), depending on their degree of acceptance/rejection of the non-binary character, is almost never fortuitous.
If you are translating subtitles for a movie or TV show, what is more important:
- Keeping faith with the eventual non-inclusiveness of the original script, which might be essential to the viewer’s understanding of the plot and the interrelationships between the characters?
or
- Adapting (nay - 'neutralising') the language at the behest of someone who quite likely has some ulterior motive, unrelated to the story-line of the original production?
JL
| | | | | No, but species-neutral animals | Mar 2, 2023 |
I have been asked to adapt a translation to species-neutral animals. It was for a text about cows, but it turns out that some cows feel they are more like horses, so in order not to offend any cow I therefore had to come up with a way to refer to something that could be either a cow or a horse. Instead of the rather obvious "cow or horse", the end client insisted on the word "chorwse" which he felt was more species-neutral. Of course, I had no issue with that.
As a translator, I fee... See more I have been asked to adapt a translation to species-neutral animals. It was for a text about cows, but it turns out that some cows feel they are more like horses, so in order not to offend any cow I therefore had to come up with a way to refer to something that could be either a cow or a horse. Instead of the rather obvious "cow or horse", the end client insisted on the word "chorwse" which he felt was more species-neutral. Of course, I had no issue with that.
As a translator, I feel it is very important to respect the sentiments of cows that feel they are horses and I have no problem to go out of my way to transform my language in any way possible to satisfy the sentimental needs of such cows, and I would be more than willing to do the same for any one else who has special sentiments about particular words or who feels inclined to dictate the way the rest of us speak so as not to offend them.
[Edited at 2023-03-02 09:42 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Joe France 
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:44
Member (2016)
German to English
+ ...
| Gender-neutral vs. non-binary | Mar 2, 2023 |
Jennifer Levey wrote:
The poll question asks specifically about the ‘adaptation’ of a translation to ‘include gender-neutral people’.
The obvious implication is that we’re talking about a source text which is not written in ‘inclusive’ language, but the client is asking for the translation to be ‘inclusive’.
I have to say, I didn't read it as such. The question seemed to be phrased in a slightly odd way: when I talk about people who don't identify as male or female, I would typically describe them as "non-binary people". I would save "gender neutral" for nouns that do not explicitly reference gender, such as "gender-neutral language". Using gender-neutral language is a way to include people who fit in the gender binary as well as non-binary people. (A quick Google search confirms a far higher SV for "non-binary people" (2.62m) than "gender-neutral people" (11,000)).
With this unusual phrasing in mind, I assumed that the question would include having been directly asked to use inclusive language in a translation. I do this as a matter of course in English: it's usually not difficult, as the singular "they" is well established. But I realise it isn't necessarly as straightforward in other languages.
I am somewhat disappointed by some of the comments above. I'm not sure how using "they" instead of "he or she" can be termed a "circus" – or how such comments can be considered suitable for a professional forum. But hey ho, I'm not here to start (or continue) an argument. The long and short of it is that inclusive language is increasingly widespread and I expect that trend to continue.
| | |
|
|
|
| Offensive parody | Mar 2, 2023 |
Thomas Johansson wrote:
I have been asked to adapt a translation to species-neutral animals. [I refuse to quote the rest or the post.]
As mentioned in my first post in this thread, I am transgender. And I know for a fact that several other site members/users also have a deep personal as well as a professional interest in the use (and abuse) of 'inclusive language', which can have a major impact on peoples' - OUR - well-being.
This is no laughing matter. Many people commit suicide simply because others use inappropriate language - often involving sick parody - when referring to their 'condition'.
I find it utterly unacceptable that any site user should profit from this thread to expose negationist dogma, ill-disguised as humourous (?) parody, at the expense of those of us who have a genuine interest in the way in which WE are referred to by others, be it in speech or writing.
JL
PS: I have not (yet...) asked a moderator to remove the offending post because, just as Thomas seeks to deride, I seek to highlight the potential harm to others resulting from words 'spoken/written in jest'.
[Edited at 2023-03-02 11:26 GMT]
| | | |
Jennifer Levey wrote: Alessandra Turconi wrote:
... I translate subtitles and the audiovisual field is introducing non binary characters in movies and tv shows. The poll question asks specifically about the ‘adaptation’ of a translation to ‘include gender-neutral people’. The obvious implication is that we’re talking about a source text which is not written in ‘inclusive’ language, but the client is asking for the translation to be ‘inclusive’. In any work of fiction involving one or more non-binary characters, the way the other characters use, avoid using, and even deliberately misuse appropriately gendered language (‘dead-naming’ and related negationist tactics), depending on their degree of acceptance/rejection of the non-binary character, is almost never fortuitous. If you are translating subtitles for a movie or TV show, what is more important: - Keeping faith with the eventual non-inclusiveness of the original script, which might be essential to the viewer’s understanding of the plot and the interrelationships between the characters? or - Adapting (nay - 'neutralising') the language at the behest of someone who quite likely has some ulterior motive, unrelated to the story-line of the original production? JL
Having read your previous comment, I'm glad you underlined this matter.
What I meant to say in my previous reply was more related to the fact that maybe (I'm making assumptions here because it's never happened to me so far) in order not to offend or misgender somebody the translation of some lines in one scene can be resolved by turning the whole sentence upside down in order not to use specific pronouns.
In this case I feel like saying that I would do my best, first, to preserve the integrity of the script.
If it's the case and it's required to use a specific choice of words I would do that, but it has to make sense as a whole.
I'm doing my best to learn something every day and all I'm saying is that this is just a stylistic matter, I'm aware that there are other important matters behind to be kept in mind.
| | | | Kay Denney
France
Local time: 07:44
French to English
I put other because I don't think any of the possible situations have existed for me.
I have mostly been in a position of using inclusive language in the target when it wasn't in the source yet would be appropriate and would normally be used in that context by native English speakers, and sometimes having my choices questioned.
I have been using the inclusive "they" for longer than I can remember and had a client insisting on "he/she" and telling me I should be grateful they... See more I put other because I don't think any of the possible situations have existed for me.
I have mostly been in a position of using inclusive language in the target when it wasn't in the source yet would be appropriate and would normally be used in that context by native English speakers, and sometimes having my choices questioned.
I have been using the inclusive "they" for longer than I can remember and had a client insisting on "he/she" and telling me I should be grateful they're including women and not to push for any more than that. This, Jennifer, hurt me on behalf of you and all trans and NB and intersex people. I'm so sorry you get cancelled like this. I wish I had had the guts to pretend I was trans and hear the client try to continue to justify their stance, but since I'd been working with them for over 25 years, such a ploy may not have sounded very authentic.
I did see that as a slight improvement though, having spent years telling clients, including this one, that no, you do not put "M/F" in random job adverts to show you don't mind what gender the new hire will be, since that went out of fashion last century in English-speaking countries, because it *goes without saying* that gender is irrelevant for *all* job adverts.
On a more positive note I recently had to translate a text about how to make events inclusive: this included stuff about making sure staff knew what to do if a client told them they didn't feel safe because of the behaviour of other clients, and also WC signs that said "here we pee standing up" and "here we pee sitting down" to replace the usual stick figures with and without skirts. I didn't have to adapt anything, and in fact it was very easy because it is much easier to make an English text gender-neutral than the source language French.
[Edited at 2023-03-06 09:14 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member because it was not in line with site rule |
|
|
Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 07:44
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
I’ve been asked to do it for a copywriting project. I’ve been told websites can get sued by companies if the latter don’t like a language or see some bias in it. Therefore, my conclusion is they don’t care about linguistic gender, they just don’t want to get sued.
| | | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2] | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Poll: Have you been asked to adapt a translation to include gender-neutral people? | CafeTran Espresso | You've never met a CAT tool this clever!
Translate faster & easier, using a sophisticated CAT tool built by a translator / developer.
Accept jobs from clients who use Trados, MemoQ, Wordfast & major CAT tools.
Download and start using CafeTran Espresso -- for free
Buy now! » |
| | Protemos translation business management system | Create your account in minutes, and start working! 3-month trial for agencies, and free for freelancers!
The system lets you keep client/vendor database, with contacts and rates, manage projects and assign jobs to vendors, issue invoices, track payments, store and manage project files, generate business reports on turnover profit per client/manager etc.
More info » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
