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academic reasoning
What exactly is she saying?
Nov 19, 2019 22:38
4 yrs ago
5 viewers *
English term

Question marks where the question includes a question within quotation marks.

English Art/Literary Linguistics Grammar and punctuation
Dear colleagues,

What would be the correct way to ask the following question:

Have you read "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?"?

OR

Have you read "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?"

Logic tells me that the closing question mark of the title is not really part of the question, so I need to properly close the question itself with another question mark, however odd it may look.

A coworker of mine disagrees.

What say you?
Responses
2 +2 Have you read "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?"
4 +5 Use the two question marks
5 +3 Have you read "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?"?
4 Have you read "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?"

Discussion

Taña Dalglish Nov 21, 2019:
@ George Again thank you. I will not gloss the chosen answer as the original question does not follow ProZ' conventions on the posting of questions. So, I will leave that to you to somehow rephrase, but I think it is an important addition to the glossary and as resource for future askers of a similar type question, IMO. Again, many thanks.
Francisco Chagas Nov 19, 2019:
It seems that some variants of American and British style guides offer somewhat different takes on the matter.

http://www.mhra.org.uk/style/9.3

[QUOTE]For quotations which are either interrogatory or exclamatory, punctuation marks should appear both before and after the closing quotation mark:

The pause is followed by Richard’s demanding ‘will no man say “Amen”?’.

Why does Shakespeare give Malcolm the banal question ‘Oh, by whom?’?[/QUOTE]
Francisco Chagas Nov 19, 2019:
This has been very interesting to research about; Taña raised some very valid concerns and sources.

Primary English: Knowledge and Understanding, pp. 161:
[https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=fEhgI8RaG-UC&pg=PT148&lp...]

[QUOTE] 4. Two or more sentences of speech divided by narrative: The direct speech is two separate sentences, so there is a capital letter and a full stop for each.

[...]

This can sometimes produce typographical entanglements:

"Have you seen 'Who's afraid of Virginia Woolf?'? [/QUOTE]
philgoddard Nov 19, 2019:
Yesterday I answered my Yahoo! emails while eating Chips Ahoy! and reading "Westward Ho!"!

Responses

+2
15 mins
English term (edited): "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?"
Selected

Have you read "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?"


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who's_Afraid_of_Virginia_Woolf...
"Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?"



https://www.dailywritingtips.com/quotation-marks-and-punctua...
The third question asks if two question marks are needed when a quotation is couched within a question. For example: The professor asked the class, “Did you enjoy the play Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf?”?

Answer: No. One question mark is sufficient: The professor asked the class, “Did you enjoy the play Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf?”

One question mark is sufficient. Your colleague is correct, IMO.

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Note added at 18 mins (2019-11-19 22:57:22 GMT)
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https://www.latimes.com/socal/burbank-leader/opinion/tn-blr-...

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Note added at 21 mins (2019-11-19 23:00:13 GMT)
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Chicago Style Workout 15: Punctuation and Closing Quotation Marks (CMOS 6.09–11 )
A period precedes closing quotation marks, whether double or single. ...
Colons and semicolons—unlike periods and commas—follow closing quotation marks. ...
A question mark always follows closing quotation marks.
More items...•May 30, 2017
Chicago Style Workout 15: Punctuation and Closing Quotation ...
https://cmosshoptalk.com › 2017/05/30 › chicago-style-workout-15-punctua...
Search for: How do you use quotation marks in Chicago style?
Can you use two punctuation marks at the end of a sentence?
***Two last rules: —Periods (..), question marks (??), and exclamation marks (!!) do not double up. ... ****—A period never follows an exclamation mark or question mark. If a period collides with one of these at the end of a sentence, the word punctuation wins and the other goes away.

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Note added at 28 mins (2019-11-19 23:07:27 GMT)
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https://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/search.epl
[16th ed.] 13.28 Quotations and “quotes within quotes”
Search The Chicago Manual of Style --> --> --> 13: Quotations and Dialogue Chapter Contents » Quotation Marks » Double or Single 13.28 Quotations and “quotes within quotes” Quoted words, phrases, and sentences...When the material quoted consists entirely of a quotation within a quotation, only one set of quotation marks need be employed (usually double quotation marks).... Question marks and exclamation points are placed just within the set of quotation marks ending the element to which such terminal punctuation belongs....

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Note added at 2 hrs (2019-11-20 01:32:39 GMT)
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1 Answer. According to this source, using two question marks in a sentence is not correct where both quoted words and the sentence are questions. For those rare occasions when both the quoted words and the sentence are questions, put the question mark inside the quotation marks.
https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/295832/are-two-q...


How should a question which quotes a question be punctuated? 2 answers
Is it technically correct to use two question marks in the sentence below, i.e. one for the quoted question and the other for the overall question?

Did she say, "Where's the coffee?"?

According to this source, using two question marks in a sentence is not correct where both quoted words and the sentence are questions.

To re-iterate the explanation

For those rare occasions when both the quoted words and the sentence are questions, put the question mark inside the quotation marks.

Here’s an example of this rule:

Did the mover really ask, “Is that lady for real?” No matter what, don’t use two question marks:

Wrong: Did Betsy ask, “What’s the number of a good lawyer?”?

Right: Did Betsy ask, “What’s the number of a good lawyer?”

[Source: How to Punctuate Quotations with Question Marks]

But 'this source' is essentially a style guide. At least one other says that double punctuation is not considered incorrect per se, especially in England. – Edwin Ashworth Dec 24 '15 at 15:37
It may be accepted, but it is not "visually appealing", to quote Andrew Leach from this answer. I'll edit my answer accordingly. – BiscuitBoy Dec 24 '15 at 16:06

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Note added at 1 day 17 hrs (2019-11-21 16:34:09 GMT) Post-grading
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Thank you George.
Peer comment(s):
agree philgoddard : I think quote marks are redundant - either all initial caps, or italics.
14 mins
Thank you.
agree Elisabeth Richard
7 hrs
Thank you Elisabeth.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Fantastic, well-documented answer. "
+3
15 mins

Have you read "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?"?

It would be wise to treat the title as a variable*, all punctuation in it should not account for the overall structure of the phrase it has been inserted into.

Have you read "X"?
Peer comment(s):
neutral philgoddard : This may be logically correct, but I think it looks weird.
20 mins
To me, it looked ever clear, Phil; yet, and as per your words, the more I delved into it, the more such weirdness seemed to manifest itself.
agree Tony M
38 mins
Thank you, Tony.
agree Ali Sharifi
16 hrs
Thank you, Ali!
agree David Moore (X)
1 day 15 hrs
Thank you, David!
Something went wrong...
+5
16 mins

Use the two question marks

Or rewrite to avoid the situation.

I've just read "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?" Have you read it?
"WAoVW" is a famous play; have you read it?

I agree with your logic and I teach it your way. However, "Virginia" is a play, isn't it? I would use italics, not quotation marks, to indicate the title of a play or a book. In that case, I would let one question mark suffice.

Word of warning: I haven't found authoritative support for ANY solution for this problem.
Peer comment(s):
agree Tony M
37 mins
Thank you, Tony.
agree Yvonne Gallagher : rewrite is the best advice + italics (and 1 mark)
48 mins
Whenever punctuation threatens to look "weird," I go for a rewrite. Italics do resolve this particular question, though. Thanks, Yvonne!
agree Tina Vonhof (X) : Italics would eliminate the used of quotation marks altogether.
1 day 2 hrs
That's what I thought. This specific instance is resolved by using italics. But I'm glad to see this discussion, for those cases when italics don't apply. Thanks for your comment, Tina!
agree David Moore (X)
1 day 15 hrs
Thanks, David.
agree Christine Andersen
1 day 16 hrs
Thank you, Christine.
Something went wrong...
1 day 12 hrs

Have you read "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?"

We need to use like this to eradicate redundancy.
Something went wrong...
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