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Thread poster: jyuan_us
jyuan_us
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紐約有一份中文小報 Jun 4, 2009

其中有一個英語學習專欄﹐就是一段英文一段翻譯﹐然後解釋一些語法現象。譯文充滿英文理解的錯誤和中文表達錯誤。不誇張地說﹐譯文里沒有幾句通順的。這個專欄照樣已經生存了很多年。

[Edited at 2009-06-04 04:03 GMT]


 
jyuan_us
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休班警察 Jun 4, 2009

紐約的中文報紙報導警察出事的新聞﹐老愛寫休班警察﹐聽多了給人感覺好像警察一休班就出事﹐或者警察出事都是在休班中。

這個詞老是被那些報紙的翻譯用。我不知道其英文是什麼﹐總感覺是誤譯。即使意思沒有翻譯錯﹐就不能改改措辭嗎﹖現在搞得這個詞組像個固定詞組。

真是老反胃了。


 
jyuan_us
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解釋一下 Jun 4, 2009

Keli Zhang wrote:

jyuan_us wrote:

本來很響亮的一句廣告詞﹐被翻譯成了這樣﹐而且已被廣泛採納和接受。

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=您值得擁有&btnG=Google%20Search&aq=f&oq=

大家猜猜它的英文原文是什麼。其實不用猜﹐一看就知道。

跟我合作的翻譯就經常這樣翻﹐每次看到他們這樣翻我就來氣﹐還朝一個翻譯吼過一次。今天GOOGLE了一下﹐才發現這不賴他們﹐因為人人都這樣翻譯。

真感覺錯怪了他們。心裡頭默默地向他們道歉﹐尤其想對我朝其吼過得那個人說﹕“你不是單獨的﹗”



[Edited at 2009-05-14 05:35 GMT]


不看电视的好处就是不会为此郁闷,hiahia

但是我没看懂。您值得拥有,中文还说得过去啊!
是译自“You deserve it"吗?


您值得擁有的意思是你值得被別人擁有。


 
ysun
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off-duty police officer Jun 4, 2009

即下了班的“不当班警察”
jyuan_us wrote:

紐約的中文報紙報導警察出事的新聞﹐老愛寫休班警察﹐聽多了給人感覺好像警察一休班就出事﹐或者警察出事都是在休班中。

這個詞老是被那些報紙的翻譯用。我不知道其英文是什麼﹐總感覺是誤譯。即使意思沒有翻譯錯﹐就不能改改措辭嗎﹖現在搞得這個詞組像個固定詞組。

真是老反胃了。


 
Katrin Koehler (X)
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What´s that? Jun 4, 2009

jyuan_us wrote:

惡之花﹐生命中不能承受之輕


Evil´s Peanuts Hit Straight into the Unbearable Lightness? Whose work was that? It looks like interesting.

[Edited at 2009-06-05 01:00 GMT]


 
ysun
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不知其所云 Jun 4, 2009

Katrin Koehler wrote:

What´s that?
jyuan_us wrote:

惡之花﹐生命中不能承受之輕

Evil´s Peanuts Hit Unbearable Lightness? Whose work was that? It looks like interesting.

我敢说,至少有99.99% 的 native Chinese speakers 都看不懂“生命中不能承受之轻”是什么意思。此捷克小说的原名为 "Nesnesitelná lehkost bytí”,英译本为 "The unbearable lightness of being”。估计“生命中不能承受之轻”是从英文直译过去的。后来又有人改译为《不能承受的生命之轻》。我看那也是半斤八两。连书名都译成这样,其全文可想而至。 这本小说我没看过,译成这样我就更不会去看它。 虽然不知其详细内容,但我觉得另一种译法“布拉格之恋”就比这种译法强上几百倍。连翻译文学作品都不用意译,那译什么作品才用意译?

记得文革结束后不久,我看过一部英语原版片 "Carve Her Name with Pride”。中文名为“女英烈传”。当时我就觉得这个片名译得非常好。如果直译,人们也会不知其所云。

生命中不能承受之轻
http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/生命中不能承受之轻

布拉格之戀
http://big5.cri.cn/gate/big5/gb.cri.cn/6851/2005/06/27/[email protected]

Carve Her Name with Pride
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carve_Her_Name_with_Pride

女英烈传
http://blog.stnn.cc/StBlogPageMain/Efp_BlogLogKan.aspx?cBlogLog=1002171186


 
Katrin Koehler (X)
Katrin Koehler (X)
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布拉格之恋? Jun 5, 2009

ysun wrote:
不知其所云
Katrin Koehler wrote:

What´s that?
jyuan_us wrote:

惡之花﹐生命中不能承受之輕

Evil´s Peanuts Hit Straight into the Unbearable Lightness? Whose work was that? It looks like interesting.

我敢说,至少有99.99% 的 native Chinese speakers 都看不懂“生命中不能承受之轻”是什么意思。此捷克小说的原名为 "Nesnesitelná lehkost bytí”,英译本为 "The unbearable lightness of being”。估计“生命中不能承受之轻”是从英文直译过去的。后来又有人改译为《不能承受的生命之轻》。我看那也是半斤八两。连书名都译成这样,其全文可想而至。 这本小说我没看过,译成这样我就更不会去看它。 虽然不知其详细内容,但我觉得另一种译法“布拉格之恋”就比这种译法强上几百倍。连翻译文学作品都不用意译,那译什么作品才用意译?

记得文革结束后不久,我看过一部英语原版片 "Carve Her Name with Pride”。中文名为“女英烈传”。当时我就觉得这个片名译得非常好。如果直译,人们也会不知其所云。

I see, you mean, "恶之花生命中不能承受之轻" are two different works and 99.99% of native Chinese speakers wouldn't understand what the last work, "The Unbearable Lightness of Being," means. I am sorry to have mistaken "恶之花生命中不能承受之轻" for a sole work written by some author unknown to me.

However, I would wonder that 99.99% of Chinese natives wouldn't understand Kundera's book titled "The Unbearable Lightness of Being" and take "Love in Prag," "Love for Prag" or "Love of Prag" for a better title. A book title like "The Unbearable Lightness of Being" kicks off more imagination than "Love in/for/of X," I would say. Besides, Kundera's work doesn't deal with "Love" in/for/of "Prag" at all. Kundera would definitely feel sorry for the 99.99% of Chinese natives, should they read a book titled "布拉格之恋" as his masterpiece.

Kundera is of the opinion that the reader's imagination automatically completes the writer's vision. He, as the writer, wishes to focus on the essential. For him the essential does not include the physical appearance or even the interior world (the psychological world) of his characters.

The idea of the lightness of being is in contrast to the idea of the heaviness of being, the eternal recurrence of the universe and all events therein. Kundera trys to show the significance and the insignificance of human lives any why people suffer. A book titled "布拉格之恋" wouldn't convey the idea of the novel in a slightest way. I would take "生命中不可承受之轻" for a proper book title, even in Chinese.

As to Charles Baudelaire's work "Les Fleurs du Mal," I would take either "恶之华" or "恶之花" for a proper book title, for Baudelaire shows us with his poems how matters regarded as "Evil" can be presented as "Flowers."

BTW, is it allowed to discuss in other languages other than Chinese here? In negative case, I would try my best to write in Chinese.


 
Katrin Koehler (X)
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追忆逝水年华 Jun 5, 2009

ysun wrote:
我敢说,至少有99.99% 的 native Chinese speakers 都看不懂“生命中不能承受之轻”是什么意思。此捷克小说的原名为 "Nesnesitelná lehkost bytí”,英译本为 "The unbearable lightness of being”。估计“生命中不能承受之轻”是从英文直译过去的。后来又有人改译为《不能承受的生命之轻》。我看那也是半斤八两。连书名都译成这样,其全文可想而至。 这本小说我没看过,译成这样我就更不会去看它。 虽然不知其详细内容,但我觉得另一种译法“布拉格之恋”就比这种译法强上几百倍。连翻译文学作品都不用意译,那译什么作品才用意译?


I am not sure that I can make any judgement about Chinese styles. Should 99.99% native Chinese speakers have difficulties to understand Milan Kundera's "生命中不能承受之轻," would they have the same difficulties with Marcel Proust's "追忆逝水年华"? Would anyone be interested to read this work of Proust's just because the Chinese book title for his "À la recherche du temps perdu (In Search of Lost Time)" is elegantly translated? (By "elegantly" I mean 9 out of 10 of my acquaintants tell me that. However, most of my Chinese acquaintants have not read Proust's works at all. Could it be the volume that hinders reading?)

"生命中不可承受之轻 (The Unbearable Lightness of Being)" may sound unfamiliar to Chinese ears - it doesn't sound familiar to German ears, either - but I am wondering how Chinese felt when they first heard of "南无阿弥陀佛 (Ave Amitabha!)" or "观世音 (Avalokitasvara)." So far I know, 鳩摩羅什 (Kumārajīva) first translated "Avalokitasvara" into Chinese as "观世音" while 玄奘 (Xuanzang) wasn't of the same opinion and translated it as "观自在." Chinese people get used to both during the history and everybody knows that that both are the one and the same name for "Bodhisattva Avalokitavara." Would it be possible that Chinese people understand the difference between the Lightness of Being and the Heaviness of Being without difficulties just like they get used to both "观世音" and "观自在"? Or just like they respond to "南无阿弥陀佛" without much thinking?

The topic of this thread should be "Classical Wrong Translations," as the headline states. But I am not of the opinion that "生命中不可承受之轻 (The Unbearable Lightness of Being)" should be a wrong translation. It is just an unfamiliar translation for some Chinese. The translation can become familiar to Chinese readers if they come behind the ideas of "the Lightness of Being" and "the Heaviness of Being," that is, when they get used to Western philosophy like they do with Buddhism after centuries and centuries. Then, Kundera's "生命中不可承受之轻" might be easier to understand for Chinese than Proust's "追忆逝水年华," I guess.


 
ysun
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a little bit of clarification Jun 5, 2009

Katrin Koehler wrote:

However, I would wonder that 99.99% of Chinese natives wouldn't understand Kundera's book titled "The Unbearable Lightness of Being" and take "Love in Prag," "Love for Prag" or "Love of Prag" for a better title. A book title like "The Unbearable Lightness of Being" kicks off more imagination than "Love in/for/of X," I would say. Besides, Kundera's work doesn't deal with "Love" in/for/of "Prag" at all. Kundera would definitely feel sorry for the 99.99% of Chinese natives, should they read a book titled "布拉格之恋" as his masterpiece.

Katrin,

Let me make a little bit of clarification. I didn’t mean that 99.99% of Chinese natives wouldn't understand Kundera's book. I didn’t mean that 99.99% of Chinese natives wouldn't understand the English book title "The Unbearable Lightness of Being", either. What I meant is that 99.99% of the Chinese natives wouldn't understand what the Chinese book title "生命中不可承受之轻" means if they don’t read the book because most of the Chinese people do not write or speak in that way. That is a very poor expression in Chinese. If you prefer to take "生命中不可承受之轻" for the title of this book in Chinese, I would suggest adding just one character to it: “生命中不能承受之轻”. I believe this would make a lot more sense to most of the Chinese people.

I am not in a position to judge what would be a proper Chinese translation for the title of this book since I’ve never read the book, either in English or in Chinese. My opinion “虽然不知其详细内容,但我觉得另一种译法“布拉格之恋”就比这种译法强上几百倍” was merely based on a brief introduction of this book I learnt from the Internet, e.g., from the following link:

http://big5.cri.cn/gate/big5/gb.cri.cn/6851/2005/06/27/[email protected]


 
ysun
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Translated with Google Language Tools Jun 5, 2009

Czech > Chinese > English

Nesnesitelná = 无法忍受 = Unbearable

lehkost = 明度 = lightness

bytí = 存在 = being

Translated all together:
Nesnesitelná lehkost bytí = 布拉格之恋 = Unbearable Lightness of Being

Isn’t that interesting?


 
jyuan_us
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My response Jun 5, 2009

Katrin Koehler wrote:

The topic of this thread should be "Classical Wrong Translations," as the headline states. But I am not of the opinion that "生命中不可承受之轻 (The Unbearable Lightness of Being)" should be a wrong translation. It is just an unfamiliar translation for some Chinese. The translation can become familiar to Chinese readers if they come behind the ideas of "the Lightness of Being" and "the Heaviness of Being," that is, when they get used to Western philosophy like they do with Buddhism after centuries and centuries. Then, Kundera's "生命中不可承受之轻" might be easier to understand for Chinese than Proust's "追忆逝水年华," I guess.



Learning new philosophy, ideas and concepts from other cultures happens naturally. You cannot force people to accept a poorly translated word, if not a totally wrong translation. When there are better and more accurate Chinese words to choose, we shouldn't wait for centuries and centures for people to get used to the poorly translated terms.

We see too many cases in which the readers are "conditioned" to poor translation. This at least is not a good thing. Translators are supposed to give good translations in the first place instead of pouring all those bad translations into publications.

不可承受之轻 is just weird, it is like seeing a worm from inside the bread you are eating. I don't mean it is disgusting, it is just not very pleasant.



[Edited at 2009-06-05 23:20 GMT]

[Edited at 2009-06-06 00:24 GMT]


 
ysun
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生命中 vs. 生活中 Jun 5, 2009

Speaking of “生命中不能承受之輕", it would sound much more natural if we say “生活中难以承受之轻松", "生活中无法承受之轻松", or “生活中不堪忍受之轻松" although “轻松" usually comes with “享受/令人享受的" (enjoy/enjoyable). We could also replace “生活中" with “人生" in these phrases, e.g, "人生难以承受之轻松".

Generally speaking, we say “生活中的轻松" or “生活中的沉重" instead of “生命中之輕" or “生命中之重". However, we could say “生命之轻" or “生命之重", but its meaning would be quite different.


 
jyuan_us
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SO TRUE。 Jun 6, 2009

Ysun is right.我不知道全書的意思﹐因此對LIFE的理解我沒有根據﹐但有一點是清楚的﹐很多人看到LIFE就只翻譯成生命而不敢翻譯成生活。LIFE前邊必須有形容詞﹐比如DAILY LIFE﹐他們才敢翻譯成生活。對於這些譯者來說﹐ 生活 IS RESERVED FOR “LIVE”。

經驗之談。


 
jyuan_us
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丟人現眼又一宗- 常凯申 Jun 6, 2009

最近有人在發表的文章中因為不認識一個中國名人的英文﹐按照音譯原則﹐很規範地翻譯成了常凯申。

我沒仔細看原文﹐據說譯者是中國數一數二的牛笑的系主任﹐教授﹐博導。


 
jyuan_us
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孟子被著名教授回譯成了門修斯 Jun 6, 2009

jyuan_us wrote:

最近有人在發表的文章中因為不認識一個中國名人的英文﹐按照音譯原則﹐很規範地翻譯成了常凯申。

我沒仔細看原文﹐據說譯者是中國數一數二的牛笑的系主任﹐教授﹐博導。


事情發生在幾年前了﹐很多同仁可能都了解這個事件。今收錄於此﹐權作笑談。


 
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